Go to Something Awful and find the grognards.txt thread. It's 1500 and some pages, good luck with balancing that out.
Rampant Anti-Groggism
- Thread starter Jack Daniel
- Start date
Go to Something Awful and find the grognards.txt thread. It's 1500 and some pages, good luck with balancing that out.
thedungeondelver
Adventurer
'sfunny, I played 3e for a good year plus, then off and on again since and I stuck my head in a PATHFINDER forum discussion about something or the other and I could not follow a single thing they were talking about. Note this is not a ding to PATHFINDER, or even 3e. But even given that I found it easier to comprehend than 4e talk.
Kalontas
First Post
So what, now you want revenge? And you want to "avenge" your beloved edition on me, who had nothing to do with removing your favourite parts?
I really am open to using elements from all different editions. It's just that when I mention using any element of 4E, I'm usually quickly scared into a corner by those "grognards" (according to the definition I posted earlier) and forced to defend my preferences about it, making me look like some fanatical 4E-ist. I'm just pushed into that position by people who can't stand anything to do with 4E.
I really do want 5E to be the game for all of us. I really do, trust me. It's just people who want some crazy revenge for their edition being "slighted" who are holding it up - because they don't want to allow in preferences from that "evil" edition, one I happen to like and advocate. It can't be the edition for everyone if you shut off 4E. If you shut off 4E, it's not edition for everyone, just for the "3.X grognards" - who should just stick with 3.X if they're so fanatical for it.
And that shows in seminars, where at every conflict of "3.X does it this way, but 4 does it that way", developers seem to always go for the 3.X option, because the "grognards" are overshouting me (and alike people) with their hatred for 4E.
Yes, I know the edition of your preference was slighted, and I regret it. I, however, happen to like the newer edition, and I'm not the only one. I just want the voice of my preference be heard and my preferences be included AMONG those of you or other, even older fans. Do not hold it up. If you can't live with anything from 4E, remain with 3.X/PF. If you can make a compromise, bear with me.
Gentlemen and Ladies,
Chill out. The "Us vs Them" attitude isn't acceptable. It is one more variant on edition warring, and we don't want it here.
We have already had to warn this thread once. It is now past time to reconsider your posts before clicking on "submit", as at this point we are unlikely to warn you again before we click on "give infraction".
So, if you're getting heated, walk away. Please.
It has nothing to do with revenge, just a rollback of what was arguably a mistake to introduce as a core game element.
Your preferences don't have to be present in the core to be present in the game. I like PC sprites and pixies, but wouldn't push them as core, nor force them into every campaign and world by default in a way that elves and dwarves might fit. Why should you inflict dragonborn on people who don't like them? Your excuse that they can be removed is a lip servicing furphy, as setting retcons, builds, artwork etc. all prove.
Your attempt to assume victim status by saying others who want a break from your preferred material is kind of transparent - there's little desire for "revenge" or a feeling of being "slighted", just a desire for D&D to go back to being D&D. Not sure, from my frame of reference at least, that that is going to happen. You're getting these elements by the look of it - we're just protesting another misstep. Why then are you claiming victim status?
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
There's nothing about revenge here from me. I'm not saying that you should die and burn because WotC responded to people like you who wanted a radical change in D&D and put out 4e.
Turns out, that's not working for WotC as well as they had hoped and now they feel they need to appeal to a broader audience than 4e's fans, and that includes those of us who favor older editions. That means there will be some elements of 4e that will have to go in favor of elements that appeal to us. I empathize that your RPG will be changing away (presumably) from your favorite edition. I've been there. But wishing anyone to die and burn is a bit uncivil.
By the way, in what seminars are people being shouted down? Are you saying that's what you witnessed or heard about at DDXP? Could it not be that developers might be favoring a 3x way of doing things because they prefer it and think it will make for a better D&D or at least a D&D that will have broader appeal? Do you think grognards are intimidating them into it? I sincerely doubt it. I don't know Mike at all but I've met Monte and he seems pretty tough and not so easily intimidated by a bunch of gamers at a seminar.
Kalontas
First Post
If core consists only of options of one or two editions, the game doesn't embrace all editions - as 5E's supposed to do. I know it might fail just because truly achieving that is impossible - but I'm advocating of how we should at least TRY to do it.
Because that's how I feel when I'm being pushed into a corner I don't want to be in. I'm not proclaiming 4E-only inspiration, but people react to any mention of it as if it was the depths of the Ninth Hell, and force me to defend it from other editions. I do not want a "we vs us" mentality. I defend "we're all important" mentality. It's when someone wants to push my personal preferences out of the "us" when I feel victimised.
Maybe I'm overdramatising, I do happen to have a "talent" for that, but it doesn't change that the problem *is* there.
D&D 5E cannot "embrace" all editions by kitchen sinking the core with stuff that was a mistake to include in the core in the first place. I can't make a vintage FR or GH with 4E implied setting stuff running around, as the invasive attempts to revise those settings prove. You've un-unified D&D for that set of gamers by insisting blinkeredly on core status for this stuff. Sorry, but the path chosen for unification is oversimplistic - perhaps even naive.
CasvalRemDeikun
Adventurer
All I want is for them to consider all editions, not just one or two, when they make the game. Pandering to just one edition over the others is going to piss off a lot of people. They want to capture the feel of D&D as a whole, 1E-2E-3E-4E, and that means some stuff might not be exactly what people want. Ignoring 4E is not going to make the game sell any better than ignoring 1E, 2E, or 3E will. Modularity to make the game feel more like one edition will need to be present in the core book in order to achieve that. They also need to make the game new enough that people will see it as a worthy investment. And they also need to figure out how to make the game grow.
And the whole "your edition" and "my edition" BS doesn't help anyone. 5E isn't going to be 1E-revisited anymore than it will be 2E, 3E, or 4E-revisited. It is going to be NEW. Sure, it will have stuff the 1E alums won't care for, or the 2E alums, 3E alums, or 4E alums. But they are trying to design it so that ALL players will find the majority of it to their liking, and the rest will be able to be excised out.
And the whole "your edition" and "my edition" BS doesn't help anyone. 5E isn't going to be 1E-revisited anymore than it will be 2E, 3E, or 4E-revisited. It is going to be NEW. Sure, it will have stuff the 1E alums won't care for, or the 2E alums, 3E alums, or 4E alums. But they are trying to design it so that ALL players will find the majority of it to their liking, and the rest will be able to be excised out.
