Rampant Anti-Groggism

[harlokin]

Well, 4e sensibilities "got forced" on the game I'd played for nearly 30 years.

Really? I was under the impression that the game that you've been playing has been changing for the last 30 years, as has the RPG industry, as have the expectations of Players. 3.5e and 4e have more in common than either do with 1e.

 

[billd91]

3.5e and 4e have more in common than either do with 1e.

You may think so, but I and quite a few others thoroughly disagree. People have been over this again and again and again on these boards. I'm not going to go into it further here.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

You may think so, but I and quite a few others thoroughly disagree. People have been over this again and again and again on these boards. I'm not going to go into it further here.

Yeah but we dont count because we dont like change and/or didnt drink the Kool-Aid. And apparently there were more of us than was initially thought otherwise we wouldn't be having this wonderful conversation about a new edition with something for all players of D&D.

 

[rounser]

Really? I was under the impression that the game that you've been playing has been changing for the last 30 years, as has the RPG industry, as have the expectations of Players. 3.5e and 4e have more in common than either do with 1e.

No. Compare the 1E PHB to the 3E PHB, and with the exception of maybe the barbarian from Unearthed Arcana, and perhaps the sorcerer, the races and classes are the same. Heck, 1E even had a bard in the back of the book.

4E rather violently breaks with that tradition, and you're pretending twas always thus. Wasn't 'twas always thus, and for many folks, the 4E PHB wasn't D&D for them either. And the whole reason for getting all maverick with the implied setting (updating D&D's take on fantasy, maybe aping WoW and the like, in an attempt to bring in new players) didn't exactly bring in much in the way of new players.

Rather conveniently for them, the design team have found a way to justify retaining the changes they imposed on the game's implied setting as of 4E. Like it or not, your preferences and theirs are the sore thumb sticking out in the 30 years referred to, and yes, you and they could be considered heavy handed and selfish for insisting they be imposed on everyone else under the core D&D banner.

 

[harlokin]

No. Compare the 1E PHB to the 3E PHB, and with the exception of maybe the barbarian from Unearthed Arcana, and perhaps the sorcerer, the races and classes are the same. Heck, 1E even had a bard in the back of the book.

4E rather violently breaks with that tradition, and you're pretending twas always thus. Wasn't 'twas always thus, and for many folks, the 4E PHB wasn't D&D for them either. And the whole reason for getting all maverick with the implied setting (updating D&D's take on fantasy, maybe aping WoW and the like, in an attempt to bring in new players) didn't exactly bring in much in the way of new players.

Rather conveniently for them, the design team have found a way to justify retaining the changes they imposed on the game's implied setting as of 4E. Like it or not, your preferences and theirs are the sore thumb sticking out in the 30 years referred to, and yes, you and they could be considered heavy handed and selfish for insisting they be imposed on everyone else under the core D&D banner.

No it does not.

I find it revealing that a thread complaining about "anti groggism" is showing the hostility that exist in this forum to anyone who speaks up for any aspect of 4e, or has the temerity to suggest that the game from 1978 could do with taking into account of change since then.

 

[Grazzt]

3.5e and 4e have more in common than either do with 1e.

Disagree. 4e went gonzo in a direction away from the previous editions (all of them). Not saying it's good or bad, just that lots of things changed and took it away from what it had been.

 

[MoxieFu]

If 4E was so similar to previous editions why did an entire thread have to be created as a dictionary for non-4E players so they could understand what was being discussed?

 

[rounser]

No it does not.

I find it revealing that a thread complaining about "anti groggism" is showing the hostility that exist in this forum to anyone who speaks up for any aspect of 4e, or has the temerity to suggest that the game from 1978 could do with taking into account of change since then.

That's because your edition has rent D&D asunder, and now one of it's arguably least attractive aspects and most hard to ignore (it's implied setting) is returning for another round. Why can't we keep 4E's refinement to certain mechanics, and ditch the maverick stuff that drove so many away? The makeup of the 4E core implied setting or ditching vancian magic are maverick changes, as is a lot of other 4E stuff that was unwelcome under the D&D name, but there is another thread talking about refinements which are worth retaining. And your "dragonborn warlords" can go in the first supplement. Done.

 

[harlokin]

That's because your edition has rent D&D asunder, and now one of it's arguably least attractive aspects and most hard to ignore (it's implied setting) is returning for another round. Why can't we keep 4E's refinement to certain mechanics, and ditch the maverick stuff that drove so many away? The makeup of the 4E core implied setting or ditching vancian magic are maverick changes, as is a lot of other 4E stuff that was unwelcome under the D&D name, but there is another thread talking about refinements which are worth retaining. And your "dragonborn warlords" can go in the first supplement. Done.

No hope or innovation for the new edition, just bile for 4e and a return to a game of 30 years ago.

 

[rounser]

No hope or innovation for the new edition, just bile for 4e and a return to a game of 30 years ago.

2E had more class/race "innovations" (really, options) than I can list, but had the wisdom to keep them out of the PHB. Playing core books only (in the PHB1/DMG/MM sense) was an "out" where vanilla D&D could be returned to when the supplement crush of unbalanced rules and quirky aesthetics became annoying. Hey, 3E and 1E and BECMI can do that trick too. Guess which editions can't? 4E, and by the early indications, 5E, thanks to 4E.