D&D (2024) Ranged Builds Thread

[FrogReaver]

Now let's do the sorc 9/warlock 2

To match the control of the Level 11 Battlemaster (5 d10 dice, GWM, Crossbow Expertise, Heavy Crossbow, Max Dex) you need to use 2x level 3 slots targeting 3 enemies and 1x level 2 slot targeting 2. That also takes up 3 of your 18 actions, you still potentially have 18 bonus actions (you won't use all them at this level).

Damage per beam = 6.575
Damage per EB = 19.725
Damage with hex per EB = 8.85
Damage with hex per EB reroll = 26.55

Sorcery Points
9 Sorcerer level
4 Restoration
4 level 1 slots
9 level 3 slots
12 level 4 slots
5 level 5 slot
Total = 43

*note level 2 slots were used on web.
Pact slots are what is powering the 3 hex's.

As discussed previously 3x Web's will equal 5 battlemaster manuevers in control effect provided you quicken EB to push enemies back into it or additional enemies into it. Honestly, it could realistically be more.

non hex eb 6 rounds at 19.725 = 118.35
Hex EB 9 rounds at 26.55 = 238.95
Hex eb beam rerolls 10 at 8.85 = 88.5
non hex eb beam rerolls 7 at 6.575 = 46.025
quicken hex EB's 4 at 26.55 = 106.2
quicken non hex EB's 9 at 19.725 = 177.525

*I'm probably slightly overestimating your attack rerolls.
*Note I didn't maximize quickened hex uses anymore because hex will likely require more than the single bonus action to cast, leaving just 2 bonus actions free 2 move hex with over 3 encounters with 2 remaining rounds each.

In this 6 encounter, 18 round day the Sorlock won't really improve much on damage till the final eb beam and foresight as he's already maxed out rerolls and available bonus actions on hex/quicken. Being able to pick up empower at sorcerer 10 and get even more sorcery points as you continue to level may also help more than it seems with damage.

Total Sorlock Damage = 775.55

Now the battlemaster (added GWM) fighter will do
Attack Action 18 at 31.3 x3 = 563
Action Surge 3 at 18.05 = 93.8
+67.5 damage with superiority dice = 82.5

Battlemaster Total Damage = 739.2

At level 15 the Battlemaster can use a resource free maneuver once per turn. This more than doubles his control potential at this point. It also adds alot of damage for him. He also got an additional small damage bonus at level 13 due to advantage after misses (very small DPR boost, but coupled with the level 15 feature, it's significant. The Sorlock probably gets overtaken at this point, but will jump back in the lead at level 17.

 

[FrogReaver]

Now let's do the sorc 13/warlock 2

Sorlock Section in red will be updated later.

To match the control of the Level 15 Battlemaster (5 d10 dice, GWM, Crossbow Expertise, Heavy Crossbow, Max Dex) you need to use . That also takes up 3 of your 18 actions, you still potentially have 18 bonus actions (you won't use all them at this level).

Damage per beam = 6.575
Damage per EB = 19.725
Damage with hex per EB = 8.85
Damage with hex per EB reroll = 26.55

Sorcery Points
9 Sorcerer level
4 Restoration
4 level 1 slots
9 level 3 slots
12 level 4 slots
5 level 5 slot
Total = 43

*note level 2 slots were used on web.
Pact slots are what is powering the 3 hex's.

As discussed previously 3x Web's will equal 5 battlemaster manuevers in control effect provided you quicken EB to push enemies back into it or additional enemies into it. Honestly, it could realistically be more.

non hex eb 6 rounds at 19.725 = 118.35
Hex EB 9 rounds at 26.55 = 238.95
Hex eb beam rerolls 10 at 8.85 = 88.5
non hex eb beam rerolls 7 at 6.575 = 46.025
quicken hex EB's 4 at 26.55 = 106.2
quicken non hex EB's 9 at 19.725 = 177.525

*I'm probably slightly overestimating your attack rerolls.
*Note I didn't maximize quickened hex uses anymore because hex will likely require more than the single bonus action to cast, leaving just 2 bonus actions free 2 move hex with over 3 encounters with 2 remaining rounds each.

In this 6 encounter, 18 round day the Sorlock won't really improve much on damage till the final eb beam and foresight as he's already maxed out rerolls and available bonus actions on hex/quicken. Being able to pick up empower at sorcerer 10 and get even more sorcery points as you continue to level may also help more than it seems with damage.

Total Sorlock Damage = 775.55

Now the battlemaster (added GWM) fighter will do
Attack Action 18 at 33.375 = 600.75
Action Surge 3 at 33.375 = 100.125
+99 damage with superiority dice = 99
+81 Damage with Relentless = 81
+48.63 Damage with Studied = 48.63

*Due to targets changing and advantage after a miss making the next attack less likely to miss I'm estimating Studied Attacks as providing advantage 20% of the time even though we miss without advantage 30% of the time. 20% miss advantage rate means about 12 attacks will have advantage in this day and an advantage attack for us adds +4.0525 Damage.

Battlemaster Total Damage = 929.505

At level 15 the Battlemaster can use a resource free maneuver once per turn. This more than doubles his control potential at this point. It also adds alot of damage for him. He also got an additional small damage bonus at level 13 due to advantage after misses (very small DPR boost, but coupled with the level 15 feature, it's significant. The Sorlock probably gets overtaken at this point, but will jump back in the lead at level 17.

 

[FrogReaver]

I'll finish running the numbers later but I no longer think the sorlock is actually going to consistenly stay ahead of the battlemaster till level 17+ and even then level 20 might have the battlemaster catching up. The Sorlock does have a better allotment of control effects, so he probably should win out on that front eventually despite what the potential number of control rounds are telling us.

I think a sorlock would still be worth playing, but you probably want to lean a little more into control than damage to really make him shine. Keep in mind all these numbers are without the fighter having a magic weapon, which is highly likely by this stage.

 

[Zardnaar]

I'll finish running the numbers later but I no longer think the sorlock is actually going to consistenly stay ahead of the battlemaster till level 17+ and even then level 20 might have the battlemaster catching up. The Sorlock does have a better allotment of control effects, so he probably should win out on that front eventually despite what the potential number of control rounds are telling us.

I think a sorlock would still be worth playing, but you probably want to lean a little more into control than damage to really make him shine. Keep in mind all these numbers are without the fighter having a magic weapon, which is highly likely by this stage.

Hmm thought a spellcaster might be able to beat an archer or sword and board.

Those levels scorching ray+hex sorcerer might beat a sorlock.

Or sorlock using scorching ray.

Remember innate sorcerer is essentially at will higher up.

 

[FrogReaver]

Hmm thought a spellcaster might be able to beat an archer or sword and board.

Those levels scorching ray+hex sorcerer might beat a sorlock.

Or sorlock using scorching ray.

Remember innate sorcerer is essentially at will higher up.

Maybe. Advantage there helps.

To put things in perspective, scorching ray + hex with advantage would need to make about 71 attacks to match the 700ish damage of the battlemaster and sorlock.

A level 11 sorc dumping every possible slot into scorching ray gets to make 61 attacks. He can make a few slots from sorcery points and should be able to slightly surpass that 71 attacks mark. He'll also get a few firebolt attacks and could have +5 fire damage per round from dragon sorc. With everything included he might can slightly surpass the damage number at level 11, but he won't have any control to go with it.

 

[mellored]

Okay. I don't think it's as good of control at that point. Though if you are willing to use some sorcery points for quicken to help ensure enemies get pushed back into the web if escaped (or maybe other nearby ones that weren't in web initially) as you suggest below.

It's a little better than that, because 20' difficult terrain.
Even if they save, they may still need to spend their action to Dash instead of attack.

(hex and web being mutually exclusive).

Yes, I wasn't assuming hex past the first few levels. But it's still nice to have in your back pocket.

I mean, i seriously question the value of attacking a controlled enemy that can do nothing meaningful other than attempt to free itself from your web and may not even succeed at that

True, but it can help add control for later.

I.e. you catch 2 enemies, but one is near the edge of Web, so you push them to the back of Web.
Then when they do save, they still can't make it across.

Really depends on the battlefield, allies, ect...

I don't think the assumption that you target the webbed creature is a good one.

Agreed. I wasn't adding it to any calculations, but you can easily have a situation where all the enemies are dead or stuck.

Web has a lot of little edge cases that can add up.

I really like this option alot.

It's very fun. Especially since allies can join in.

Okay, but for it to be effective you really need 2+ melee only enemies within 20ft of each other.

Within 20' after you push someone.
EB first, then quicken Web works too.

That's alot more restrictive than finding a single melee only enemy that menacing requires.

Most battles I've seen have enemies on one side and allies on another. And as often as not there a are walls preventing just walking around Web.

But yes, i can confirm if you're outside and surrounded Web strategy falls apart. I had to cast Levitate once or twice instead.

Probably should take Tasha's now that you mentioned it....

it's still worth noting that not all turns are necessarily equal.

Agreed.

Other random thoughts.
One thing I like about the sorlock, is he can use Tasha's Laughter or similar and control ranged enemies as well. Battlemasters get no maneuvers that particularly control them (menacing for causing them disadvantage is the best he's got).

Web works decent for ranged as well. If they don't spend their action, they keep their disadvantage indefinitely while you get advantage.

Not that I would use it just for a ranged enemy, but if I caught one along with some melee it works.

But yes, you got plenty of other other spells prepared that could be useful in different situations. Cloud of Daggers in a doorway, Blind against a caster, Hold Person vs humanoids, Fly, Suggestion, Wall of Fire, Haste on a Beserker, Banishment on Demons, Mass Suggestion against a large group, ect...

 

[mellored]

Probably not worth it, but Archfey 5 gets plant growth. Which also works great with Push.
Gaze of Two Minds is also really fun.

Am I missing any other good sorcerer zones?

 

[FrogReaver]

Probably not worth it, but Archfey 5 gets plant growth. Which also works great with Push.
Gaze of Two Minds is also really fun.

Am I missing any other good sorcerer zones?

I like Sleet Storm. It would be okay for this but probably not as good as Web.
There's always Fire Wall but not really a control option.

I think Slow with the ability to push back enemies deserves mention, though it's not a zone.

 

[Zardnaar]

I like Sleet Storm. It would be okay for this but probably not as good as Web.
There's always Fire Wall but not really a control option.

I think Slow with the ability to push back enemies deserves mention, though it's not a zone.

Sleet storms great in right party/encounter.

Rangers no longer that great at range? That extra fighter feat at 6 and battkemaster dice seems better. Less damage more control?

Low level dual wired Rangers seem great ranger idk.

 

[FrogReaver]

Sleet storms great in right party/encounter.

Rangers no longer that great at range? That extra fighter feat at 6 and battkemaster dice seems better. Less damage more control?

Low level dual wired Rangers seem great ranger idk.

Hunter Ranger + Ensnaring Strike seems fairly comparable through 10th level. I’d have to do a deep dive, but I anticipate it’s very balanced.