Ranged Options for All Classes

[Lord Twig]

Thrown weapons are usually used when characters can't make it into melee range on their turn and still want to attack. The assumption is that they will close next round.

If the entire entire encounter happens at greater than a 30' range every attack will be at disadvantage and they will only have enough weapons to engage for a few rounds at most. Plus, depending on the environment you may not get those thrown weapons back.

 

[Mistwell]

Thrown weapons are usually used when characters can't make it into melee range on their turn and still want to attack. The assumption is that they will close next round.

If the entire entire encounter happens at greater than a 30' range every attack will be at disadvantage and they will only have enough weapons to engage for a few rounds at most. Plus, depending on the environment you may not get those thrown weapons back.

Javelins only weigh 2 pounds. It should not be a big issue to carry a a fair number of javelins. For example, Paladin starting equipment can include five javelins on top of two other weapons/shield, so it's expected you can carry a fair number. The Quiver of Ehlonna is an uncommon magic item which can carry 18 javelins. And, as they are not ammunition, they don't break as frequently as ammunition and will usually be recovered.

Yes, you will be at disadvantage beyond 30' (same as a hand crossbow or sling and I don't recall people describing those as useless), but otherwise it's a fine weapon doing as much damage as a scimitar or short sword at up to 120' range. People in this thread are claiming you'd "do nothing" in a ranged combat, and I just am not seeing it and my experience doesn't match that. Yes you will not be as effective as you'd be at melee, but your ranged attacker is not as effective as you are at melee usually either.

 

[Mistwell]

Apparently some people actually use the "you can only draw one weapon a turn" rule in real, live play with thrown weapons. Who knew?

Sure. But at least you can always throw one. And sometimes you can start with one in your hand and then draw a second on your turn so for some portion you can throw more than one.

Also, nobody is going to carry 20 of them (40 lbs, which appears reasonable). I would guess that people are also ignoring tracking ammunition? We sure do.

You don't need 20 of them as they are not ammunition and therefore do not easily break once used. Paladins can start with 5, and the uncommon magic quiver can carry 18, so it's not unreasonable to have enough to last your typical combat length.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

If the players are too dumb to think of a solution, they fail. That is what makes it a GAME.

This is 5E. Failure isn't on the table. The only difference is whether the barbarian gets to participate, or whether they go play Mario Kart for an hour.

 

[D1Tremere]

Isn't this the point where team work and role play are supposed to me emphasized? If I am playing a wizard, I would prefer to help get the melee into range with a big bad then to just DPS it. If I wanted to just DPS I would play a Warlock. The Wizard and Cleric are supporting their team (In Theory), and that means teleporting/Casting Fly/Whatever it takes to help non-casters get to where they are most effective.

 

[jgsugden]

Round 1: Enter with two Javelins drawn. Throw both. Draw 1.
Round 2: Draw a second and throw 2 Javelins.
Round 3: Draw one and perform another useful action, such as assisting an ally, using an item, etc....
Round 4: Draw a second and throw both....

This isn't the hardest thing in the world to manage. Yes, just as a wizard that has used up all their slots is not as effective with their cantrips as they are with spells, your ranged attacks with a javelin are weaker than your melee strikes - which can be devastatingly powerful relative to other PCs. I watched a 12th level Fighter SOLO a beholder in one round. Tell me how a 12th level wizard can do that. It is ok if the ranged combat potential is something you'r not focused upon and it is one of the weakest combat elements out there.

 

[Mistwell]

This is 5E. Failure isn't on the table. The only difference is whether the barbarian gets to participate, or whether they go play Mario Kart for an hour.

Again with this canard. Is this a conversation, or you just sitting back crossing your arms and declaring the sky is green?

Explain why a barbarian throwing 1-2 javelins (@jgsugden just detailed how you can throw 6 of them in 4 rounds and help someone else) up to 120' is "not participating" for example.

As a side note, the Dual Wielder feat would allow you to throw 2-4 of them per round as it's third benefit reads, "You can draw or stow two one-handed weapons when you would normally be able to draw or stow only one." Alternatively a 3rd level rogue (thief) with Fast Hands can draw two as a bonus action (in addition to the one you can draw normally).

I am truly trying to understand how "not as effective as you'd be in melee" is the same as "not participating at all" to you. We all understand you're not as effective as you'd be in melee, but there is a vast sea of difference between that and "not participating at all".

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Explain why a barbarian throwing 1-2 javelins up to 120' is "not participating" for example.

Because making one attack roll, with Disadvantage, where success deals a trivial amount of damage, is not engaging for the player. Even in the unlikely event that you hit, ~8 damage is a tiny sum, compared to the vast HP reserves of a high-level boss and the 20-30 damage that everyone else is dealing. If the boss dies in three rounds, whether or not you take your actions, then your actions were literally meaningless.

 

[Mistwell]

Because making one attack roll, with Disadvantage, where success deals a trivial amount of damage, is not engaging for the player. Even in the unlikely event that you hit, ~8 damage is a tiny sum, compared to the vast HP reserves of a high-level boss and the 20-30 damage that everyone else is dealing. If the boss dies in three rounds, whether or not you take your actions, then your actions were literally meaningless.

First of all, you're usually throwing two (and definitely if you have the feat or Fast Hands). Second, it's definitely not a trivial amount of damage as it's almost the same amount of damage you'd deal in melee since you still add your strength to the damage roll as normal (it's the same as a short sword or scimitar - except thrown). Third, so now this is only applicable in your mind to boss battles, and only if that boss battle is always beyond 30'?

This is becoming silly. I wish you'd articulate your objection in a more straight manner than the whack-a-mole style of argumentation you're adopting here. Is it that you want them to do as much damage as they'd do in melee? What is your objection aside from the canard of "playing mario cart instead"? Let's have it straight, without the exagerations.

 

[Bacon Bits]

Sure. But at least you can always throw one. And sometimes you can start with one in your hand and then draw a second on your turn so for some portion you can throw more than one.

To be clear, that wasn't meant to be disparaging of you, it was meant to be disparaging of the rule. I don't understand the reason the limit exists. What abuse are we closing, and how often does it actually happen? Shouldn't the rules just distinguish between what's readily available and what isn't?

You don't need 20 of them as they are not ammunition and therefore do not easily break once used. Paladins can start with 5, and the uncommon magic quiver can carry 18, so it's not unreasonable to have enough to last your typical combat length.

No, but you're not always in a position to go and retrieve the weapons. OP's scenario involved a lake of lava. Presumably that would make retrieval of javelins a bit complicated. Even in the open wilderness, you may end up with javelins all over the place in several directions if you're battling and flying enemy.