Ranged Power Attack. Viable?

[jedavis]

Yeah, I've been using Called Shot as ranged power attack since I saw it that way in Starcraft RPG.

Also, Deepwood Sniper was in Masters of the Wild (originally... not sure if it's been reprinted since). Zen Archery was originally in Sword and Fist (for monks... as quipped previously, it should have been called Fist and Fist), and then again in Complete Warrior (if memory serves), along with some strength-based throwing feats (I don't remember the names... but I do remember that they were worth my Hulking Hurler's while).

 

[saucercrab]

There's already a Power Shot counterpart to Power Attack; it's the 3rd level ability of the Deepwood Sniper in...Races of the Wild, maybe? Silver Marches? Anyway, it already exists and is deemed balanced, so I'd say just giving that as a feat would be the simplest option, maybe requiring Power Attack and a certain Dex (15-ish) as a prerequisite.

Actually, it's the peerless archer PrC in Silver Marches.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Um, is there a reason that Manyshot is unacceptable as a PA stand-in?

Other than the Manyshot solution, I don't see what would be unreasonable about an archer using PA. I understand you're trying to maintain a vague sense of realism here, so just change the feat's name, substitute Str for Dex in its prereq and imagine that the archer is taking his time to aim carefully when using PA.

From a balance PoV, options like PA are downright necessary beyond the low levels because A) ABs outstrip most ACs as levels are gained and B) hit points scale faster than damage so it is necessary, and even expected, that physical combatants have ways to trade AB for damage. Unless of course you like long combats.

TS

 

[Nyeshet]

This has already been answered, but I will reiterate some points.

Brutal Throw in Race of Stone has a thrown weapon version of Power Attack.

Peerless Archer in Silver Marshes has a bow (& xbow?) version of Power Attack.

Your player seems more interested in a ranged sneak attack than in power attack. However, 1) there are several PrCs that offer Ranged Sneak Attack, 2) normal Sneak Attack can be used within 30 ft, 3) feats that increase the range at which a sneak attack can be used exist in several third party sources - usually doubling it to 60 ft, and 4) more than a few DMs I know would allow Far Shot to also increase the range of a sneak attack by 1.5x to 45 ft. Is 45 ft or 60 ft not enough range for such an attack in your player's opinion?

Granted, while sneak attack (or ranged sneak attack) does more damage than power shot, its limitations against undead, plants, elementals, and so forth mean that many foes will be immune to the extra damage.

There are also notably limitations in regards to use. Unlike melee sneak attack, ranged sneak attacks for some reason cannot be used against flanked opponents - an odd idea, in that the whole reason flanked opponents are open to sneak attacks is that they are distracted from defending themselves properly due to pay attention to the flanker. In theory a ranged sneak attack should also be able to take advantage of such.

Taking levels in Rogue may reduce his BAB, but there are Ranger type PrCs that grant ranged sneak attack as I recall, so perhaps he can go that route.


I might also suggest some feats from PHB2: Dead Eye Shot (req Snk Atk), Penetrating Shot (effectively Cleave for ranged attacks, bab+10), Ranged Weapon Mastery, and Weapon Supremacy.

 

[Keegan]

I recommend the Order of the Bow Initiate prestige class, found in the Complete Warrior. He gets an increased ranged sneak attack called Ranged Precision. The prerequisites are something your player probably already has.

 

[Yakalopoli]

Each ranged attack you give up that round gives you a plus N bonus to every other attack that round. E.g. A 12th level fighter uses this feat in conjuction with rapid shot. SHe gives up her 2 You must use the full attack action to use this feat.

That reminds me of a third party book that has some really solid rules for sacraficing attacks to set you up for more damaging/accurate attacks. it's called the Masters of Arms: Amazon.com: Masters of Arms (d20 System) (9780971839700): Steven Palmer Peterson: Books: Reviews, Prices & more

I don't remember if it had a ranged master in there, but I suppose the same rule-set could be applied to a ranged warrior.

 

[Krensky]

Stargate, Spycraft 2, and Fantasy Craft have a feat for this and it works fine in play. I don't have a copy of Spycraft 1 handy, but I assume it did as well.

You're aiming for something other then center of mass to increase damage, so you're taking a penalty to hit.

 

[Dandu]

I recommend the Order of the Bow Initiate prestige class, found in the Complete Warrior. He gets an increased ranged sneak attack called Ranged Precision. The prerequisites are something your player probably already has.

Use the 3.0 version from Sword and Fist. The 3.5 version got nerfed hard.

 

[paigeoliver]

There is a very good reason there is no ranged power attack in the game. I mean, it isn't like no one ever thought of it. The fact is that it is simply too good.

A fighter's power attack is balanced out by the fact that he has to actually go up and melee the creature, and power attacking for too much and missing can leave the melee power attacker vulnerable to counter attack.

However a ranged power attacker isn't particularly vulnerable to counterattack and can concentrate on targets that look like they have low armor class, without ever needing to move. Enemy arcane casters will generally be dead before they even get to act. The mounts of enemy knights, gone before their action comes up, etc, etc.

Archers are already very strong against arcane casters, mounts, and other squishies, however they usually can't take them completely out in a single attack (not if the encounter is level appropriate). However with ranged power attack they could squeeze just enough extra damage where they could.

 

[jedavis]

Eh... I don't buy the 'too much damage, too little risk' argument. Consider:

The proposed range power attack versions don't double the penalty for two-handed weapons, and ranged weapons generally do significantly less damage than their melee counterparts (also, no x1.5 Str mod).

A ranged build requires significantly more multi-ability distribution (need Dex to hit and Str to boost damage) and feat distribution to be viable (PBS and PrecShot at a minimum), whereas melee requires only Strength, and then can focus on the weapon of choice.

If a composite bow user takes strength damage (from poison, say), they're SOL if their strength drops below the Mighty rating for the bow. Not a big issue for throwers, but thrown weapons have craptastic range... and not an issue at all for melee fighters. Granted, it sucks, but you can at least keep swinging.

As for casters... let's say, hypothetically, that archers are an effective counter to casters. Would that help reduce casters from their vaunted status of "unstoppable killing machines" at high levels? If so, wouldn't this be a good thing? Honestly, we've never had an issue with archers downing casters (or mounts, but that's because we hardly ever have mounts in the first place... or anything else, really.)... In most of our combats, archers end up getting AoO'd to death by foes with reach (because the fighters are busy protecting the arcanist, who does a much better job of laying the smack downrange), to the point where we haven't had anybody even try to build an archer in several years.