Ranger assistance

[Chun-tzu]

SO the twin sword style just erases the negative two from the secondary attack, and gives a +2 to the primary weapon?

No, Twin Sword Style is similar to Off-Hand Parry, and grants a bonus to AC, not attack. Neither is a "must-have" feat, but they are nice if your character is focussing on fighting with two weapons.

You might also want to think about prestige classes, because if you plan to take one, you want to be sure you meet any prerequisites.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Being quick and mobile is in character to a ranger, most definitely, but how can you justify picking up a level of barbarian, without it being metagaming? My ranger suddenly goes feral, and no longer recognizes the mores of society? I mean, maybe I'm reading too much into the concept of a barbarian, but it seems hard to explain in a way that doesn't sound like "I want a dextrous barbarian". That particular multi-class seems to really dilute the essence of a ranger. Just my 2 cents.

I think you are reading too much into the concept of the barbarian - it is not a whole culture, it is just a combination of class features like any other class. It should be no difficult to justify getting a level of barbarian (concentrating on increasing his speed and becoming more reckless in combat) than getting a level of fighter (trained somewhat harder with weapons) or rogue (learnt how to be sneaky and where vital points are on most targets).

I think the barbarian is the single class that most *adds* to the essence of the ranger (in fact barring Rage it is all the class features which I think best *fit* the ranger... hence the merging of the two classes in my current campaign!).

Anyhow, other feat options:

If you want to be "the whirling blur of blades", you could consider combat reflexes, or power attack and eventually cleave. I presume the character is non-human since you have 3 feats at this point?

An interesting possibility for the longer term might be dodge, mobility and shot on the run, although you'd be at least 9th by that time, even with an extra level of fighter slotted in there.

You might want to consider one of the "general use" combat feats such as expertise - it is always useful to be able to add up to (eventually) +5 to your AC

Another possibility that can work well is EWP(bastardsword), since you can wield it two handed when you only get one attack, but whip out another weapon if you are eligible for and wish to take multiple attacks.

Cheers

 

[IceBear]

This is a banned feat in my games.

I *might* allow it in, but I've changes Rapid Shot to give a -5 penalty as opposed to a -2 penalty (as per the archer debate ). I'd then create an Improved Rapid Shot that gives a -2 penalty. I *might* create a Perfect Rapid Shot that removes all the penalties, but I'd wait and see.

BTW - why does the original poster keep calling a ranger a speed demon? Other than the fact a ranger is normally in light armor, it's only the barbarian and the monk that gets speed increases right?

IceBear

 

[The Souljourner]

Plane Sailing - thanks for the backup on the Barbarian thing.. I feel just the same way.

As for "speed demon" I think he's just talking about getting lots of attacks due to two weapon fighting. I guess once you start getting the rest of the feats it gets a lot better.

Personally, I think that rapid shot would be more balanced if there were some drawback to it, the way there is with offhand weapons - half strength bonus and lower weapon damage. Unfortunately it's just -2 to hit, and we all know archers have no shortage of attack bonuses.

That being said, I also think that two weapon fighting should be enabled fully with just one feat, not two.

One thought, unrelated - For my ranger I'm trying to stay away from feats and abilities that restrict the type of weapons I use... even if it's only a phantom restriction. For example, I plan on not taking weapon focus or exotic weapon profiencies or anything similar, because I want to feel free to pick up whatever weapon is lying around, or preferably, whatever weapon is right for the job.

Hmm... sounds like I may want quickdraw, if I plan on switching weapons a lot. I just gave myself an idea... cool

-Nate, aka The Souljourner

 

[IceBear]

Ok...I'd call that a "combat whirlwind" and not a "speed demon", but that's all I can think of too

IceBear

 

[Darklone]

Hmmm... I never felt strange playing a wildelven barbarian/ranger.

 

[maddman75]

Here's what I'd go for personally

- Expertise. THis is one of my favorite feats. Its always nice to be able to save your bacon in melee when you get hurt, or distract the evil guy while the archers/mages finish him off. Note that this is better than Off hand parry, as you can get the same benefit (-2 to hit, +2 AC) while still attacking with your off hand and you can pump it up more than that. Only consider OHP if your Int is less that 13

- Dodge/mobility/spring attack. This is lots of fun and sounds like it goes with your concept, but it requires lots of feats and you won't be able to full attack while using it.

 

[Marius]

Barbarians and Rangers, etc etc

I was referring to the ranger as a speed demon, insofar as attacks are concerned. They get more attacks quicker than any of the other races, between rapid shots, and multiple weapons with the free feats. The main difference between they and other fighter type characters is that they emphasize speed and agility over the pure power of say, a barbarian.

My entire point with the tangent about rangers and barbarians, or for that matter, barbarians and anyone else for that matter, is not that the classes don't mesh well. I think they do. If I started out at a 0/0 level barbarian/ranger, I would have no problems with that. If the two classes have been combined in any fashion, prior to the character being created, that makes sense to me as well.

My point is that from a character development standpoint, as a ranger, or a rogue, or fighter, or anything else, those are professions. Someone can be born anywhere, in any society, and start stealing and progress to a capable thief, or go to war, and become a fighter.

All books regarding barbarians, be it masters of the wild, or the PHB, describe Barbarians as coming from a wild tribe, and coming to society to for the thrill of riches, or escaping from slavery. They are described as a lifestyle, not a profession. I just have difficulty seeing, from a roleplaying point of view, how someone can just pick up a level of barbarian after being a ranger, or a thief, or whatever for several levels. I can understand how it's beneficial to the character's abilities, rages, and increased speed and HD, and I can see why you'd want to do it, I just don't understand how it can be justified from realistic, roleplaying point of view.

Incidentally, I think Im probably going to take quick draw, because this will increase my versatility. =)

 

[IceBear]

I actually feel the same way when it comes to multiclassing - there has to be sufficent roleplaying to warrant it. No adding a level of wizard without it making sense.

That said, if a player roleplayed it appropriately, I would allow them to add any class, including barbarian. They would have to roleplayed it well over the past level though.

IceBear

 

[The Souljourner]

Marius - I think you're relying too heavily on the descriptions given to us by WoTC. They're there are a guideline... it's a class - a group of rules... you should be fitting your own character concepts onto the rules. If you take a level of barbarian and say that it's because you've spent the past year in seclusion and you've become a little more wild ... fine. You could also say you've just become more reckless than a standard ranger, and picked up a new technique from watching wolverines fight....

Just like taking a level of rogue doesn't mean you're now a wanted felon, taking a level of barbarian doesn't mean you're from a barbaric society. Take the rules and mold the flavor text to your character. ...Maybe your rogue has been seeing a lot of combat lately, but not spending a lot of time on his skills - takes a level of fighter. It's not because he's been in the military or training or anything, it's just a convenient rules set to define what you've done in character.

-The Souljourner