Ranger Balance

[gjnave]

I'm sure this has been beat into the ground, but let me state and ask again:

It seems to me that a Level 1 Ranger with Twin Strike and Quarry is way too loc. Basically, with a longbow, you can max out at 26hp on one person in one attach - usually around 14 - 18hp. Add on top of that the feat which adds an extra 10 to his range... woof!

Basically, the Ranger is dominating the battlefield taking over 80% of the kills. Minions can't do a thing, because he's rocking them out 2 at a time.

As a DM it just strikes me as too much. Are we playing this wrong.

A few things im thinking of doing:
1) Quarry remains (and cannot be changed) till target is dead
2) Nerfing the twin strike (either making it an encounter, or giving a -2)

What do you all think?

 

[Flipguarder]

Level 1 and level 30 is 4e at its most broken (which it stil isnt that much). I'd argue more so at level 1 (skill bonuses can get stupid). Rangers are strikers and honestly thats probably the best striker at-will in the game. It may be more powerful than most other options at that level, but houseruling it to make it much worse is just going to pan out badly in a few levels.

Get into another few levels and if you are still seeing a huge discrepancy between striker damage I'd make sure the other strikers are doing everything right before houseruling twin strike

 

[Stalker0]

My group considers the Bow ranger the most powerful class in 4e by far. Its also one of the most boring in our opinion.

 

[babinro]

I would go as far as to say ranged based characters are the most dominating in the game. Bow Rangers reflect this nicely, but Sorc and Warlocks both seem to perform better than most builds as well. Melee characters rely a lot more on other melee/leaders to keep them in the fray.

Of course, D&D is supposed to be a game of teamwork, so I'm not really saying this is a problem...just that the ranged characters are far less likely to fall unconscious or even be threatened, and far more likely to get more kills.

What puts the bow ranger over the top is the sheer mobility it has though. He has powers to allow him to continuously shoot at a target and get total concealment in almost every encounter. In an open field, his movement will almost guarantee that he can just back away faster than any enemy could keep up.

 

[Nifft]

Rangers are Strikers. They're supposed to kill stuff, fast and hard.

If he can target everyone on the battlefield, though, it may be that you're using boring terrain. Consider using ranged enemies behind cover (ramparts, arrow slits in a wall, a thicket of trees, or whatever -- stuff you need to walk around before you can target them effectively).

Smoke, steam, darkness, tapestries or shimmering curtains of fey magic (i.e. concealing "terrain") also limit line-of-sight, and therefore limit ranged attacks.

Use some Brutes, too. He'll love dealing a boatload of damage, and the enemy will have the HP to not go down too quickly.

Cheers, -- N

 

[UltimaGabe]

Basically, the Ranger is dominating the battlefield taking over 80% of the kills. Minions can't do a thing, because he's rocking them out 2 at a time.

Fighters can take them out two at a time too, and it only requires one attack roll. Wizards can take them out 9 at a time if they're positioned right.

But so what? They're minions. If the striker is attacking minions, someone's doing their job wrong.

 

[cdrcjsn]

Yeah, the damage output is fine. It's a few points higher than other strikers at low levels, but it quickly evens out. It's not like 3-4 points difference per attack is going to matter much when foes have 40 hit points. Either way, it's still going to take two rounds of character actions to take that guy down.

If your other strikers are doing sub-optimal damage though due to poor builds or tactics, then it exacerbates the difference. A bow Ranger is nigh impossible to build wrong and the optimal tactic is mind numbingly easy, that even a beginner can do as much damage as the most tactically savvy player.

 

[Mad Hamish]

I'm sure this has been beat into the ground, but let me state and ask again:

It seems to me that a Level 1 Ranger with Twin Strike and Quarry is way too loc. Basically, with a longbow, you can max out at 26hp on one person in one attach - usually around 14 - 18hp. Add on top of that the feat which adds an extra 10 to his range... woof!

Boosting the range is a bit of a waste.

Twin Strike is one of the best at-wills in the game without a question.
That doesn't necessarily mean that it needs to be nerfed.

Basically, the Ranger is dominating the battlefield taking over 80% of the kills. Minions can't do a thing, because he's rocking them out 2 at a time.

don't worry too much about what he's doing to minions. If the striker is consistantly hitting minions then he's not doing damage to other attackers and that's where he's much more use.

As a DM it just strikes me as too much. Are we playing this wrong.

A few things im thinking of doing:
1) Quarry remains (and cannot be changed) till target is dead
2) Nerfing the twin strike (either making it an encounter, or giving a -2)

What do you all think?

All 1) does is give the ranger less flexibility and generally that's a way to make characters less fun for the players.
2) giving a -2 to attacks with twin strike is a huge penalty for the ranger.
Making it an encounter power means that rangers suddenly get much less powerful.

I see the change as a far worse idea than just leaving things as they are.

 

[FrozenChrono]

Use terrain with cover/total cover. Limit the size of the battle field (indoors, caves, cramped allyways) and make sure your enemies have ways to get to the ranger. One of the weaknesses of ranged characters is that they aren't great in melee.

Don't single him out all the time, but make sure you regularly include tactics in your encounters that are challenging for him instead of letting him sit in the back and play a Wow DPS character.

 

[Mesh Hong]

Basically, the Ranger is dominating the battlefield taking over 80% of the kills. Minions can't do a thing, because he's rocking them out 2 at a time.

I know this might sound obvious but have you tried including artillery creatures in your encounters? You can use these to put the archer under pressure, especially if you have 2 or more focusing their fire on him while a couple of brutes or soldiers try and keep the melee characters at bay.

You can also have a few reinforcements attack from the flank or the rear, appearing in round 2 or 3. These will force a ranged attacker to rethink their tactic of hanging back out of support range from their allies.

Also as others have stated terrain is the great leveller.

As a DM it just strikes me as too much.

Yes a bow ranger is probably the best striker and a massive damage dealer, the Bow Ranger in my campaign does an insane amount of damage. But thats his job, as a DM I have no problems with any character doing large damage, its cinematic, fun and exciting. Its ongoing status effects that worry me (but thats an entirely different story).

If I was you I would stop worrying about damage output and start looking ahead at the encounter and daily powers your group will be picking in the next couple of levels.