D&D General Ranger Identity Patch (+)

Aren't they just access to the Survival and Nature skill in 5e?
1) So do everyone else
2) Those skills dont actually do anything since there isnt any clear rules. So the skill is DM fiat.
3l Most DMs have zero wilderness training and have no idea how to Survival or Nature could be used or how difficult their skilled actions (DCs) are.

Thats an identity and iconic aspect of Ranger.

Rogue and Bard are skills classes that are mostly Player vs Monster with a simple check and an obvious result of success or failure.

Pickpocket: You are detected or not.
Persuassion: You are convincing or not.

Ranger is mostly Player vs Environment outside of stealth/perception. And the results have tons of variables.

I have sticks. What can I woodcraft out of these sticks?
Can I befriend the bird? And tell him the British are coming again? And if by land or sea? And convince him to tell the mayor?
Tracks. Who made them? How many? Which direction? Are they fake?
Can I make a heatproof desert suit from the stuff in my bag?
What kind of venom can I harvest in this swamp?
Can I forage for snozzberries? What is the medicinal use of snozzberries,?
 

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1) So do everyone else
2) Those skills dont actually do anything since there isnt any clear rules. So the skill is DM fiat.
3l Most DMs have zero wilderness training and have no idea how to Survival or Nature could be used or how difficult their skilled actions (DCs) are.

Thats an identity and iconic aspect of Ranger.

Rogue and Bard are skills classes that are mostly Player vs Monster with a simple check and an obvious result of success or failure.

Pickpocket: You are detected or not.
Persuassion: You are convincing or not.

Ranger is mostly Player vs Environment outside of stealth/perception. And the results have tons of variables.

I have sticks. What can I woodcraft out of these sticks?
Can I befriend the bird? And tell him the British are coming again? And if by land or sea? And convince him to tell the mayor?
Tracks. Who made them? How many? Which direction? Are they fake?
Can I make a heatproof desert suit from the stuff in my bag?
What kind of venom can I harvest in this swamp?
Can I forage for snozzberries? What is the medicinal use of snozzberries,?
We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of the dreams
 

Some ideas for making the Ranger's expert status a little more prominent, and offer a bit of thematic counter to a Paladin's might and magic combo.

Some Ranger spells should tie into the 2014 version of favored foe and favored terrain.

Nerf current goodberry so that it isn't a 1st level slot for no food problems. Let that full strength ONLY be for a Ranger, in their favored terrain. This expert is even better than a full caster, under the right conditions.

Add some spells like the blade cantrips, and give them an extra bonus against the Rangers favored foe.

An example:
Sniper’s Shot (Cantrip)
Blade-trip esque
You make a ranged attack against a target within your weapons long range as part of casting this spell. You do not suffer the normal range penalties for long range, or you may ignore bonuses from less than full cover if the target is within normal range.

Against your Favored Foe: You may apply Hunter's Mark as a reaction before the attack roll is resolved.
 

Goodberries to me always felt a bit like lembas bread or Senzu Beans. I don't get why they'd only work for Rangers, and I'd want the Ranger to be able to distribute such powers. Maybe make it a Ranger-only Spell?

I don't want to nerf the Ranger so that it's only good in its favored terrains or against favored foes, I want to see the Rangers more flexible and situationally effective in different terrains and against different environmental challenges.

Maybe this would mean they could swap out "favored" terrain on long rest and have a different suite of exploration abilities related to it. I'd want some weather and hazard integration. Not -I Win- buttons versus these challenges but something that feels like it makes the whole party better to have the Ranger there but it's still a meaningful challenge nonetheless.

This is the classic challenge with Ranger features. Interaction with the Exploration Tier is challenging without a more complex Exploration Tier. Ranger ends up either being situationally nerfed and situationally allowing the party to just skip over the challenge scene because the scene is no longer a meaningful challenge so as to require dice rolls, or else the Ranger is generally capable in all situations and this means it tends to interact less with Exploration Tier and more with Combat Tier.
 

Goodberries to me always felt a bit like lembas bread or Senzu Beans. I don't get why they'd only work for Rangers, and I'd want the Ranger to be able to distribute such powers. Maybe make it a Ranger-only Spell?

I don't want to nerf the Ranger so that it's only good in its favored terrains or against favored foes, I want to see the Rangers more flexible and situationally effective in different terrains and against different environmental challenges.
I think the 1st level Goodberry is largely capable of trivializing the need for food, a chief challenge that could exist in the exploration pillar. I want to force players to actually engage with the pillar, not bypass it with a first level spell.
Maybe this would mean they could swap out "favored" terrain on long rest and have a different suite of exploration abilities related to it. I'd want some weather and hazard integration. Not -I Win- buttons versus these challenges but something that feels like it makes the whole party better to have the Ranger there but it's still a meaningful challenge nonetheless.
I am not sold on 5e's desire to let you half way rebuild a character every long rest, but I agree that weather effects would be good to include. A small set of examples in the DMG for both "mundane" weather (mountain storms that suddenly whip up), and more magical weather effects.

This is the classic challenge with Ranger features. Interaction with the Exploration Tier is challenging without a more complex Exploration Tier. Ranger ends up either being situationally nerfed and situationally allowing the party to just skip over the challenge scene because the scene is no longer a meaningful challenge so as to require dice rolls, or else the Ranger is generally capable in all situations and this means it tends to interact less with Exploration Tier and more with Combat Tier.
Maybe Goodberry gives a single berry when cast, and upcasts poorly. A Ranger might get a cheaper up cast in their favored terrain.
 

I replaced Favored Enemy with Hunter's Vision.

Hunter’s Vision​

You are an expert at discovering an enemy’s weaknesses, especially an enemy native to your favored terrain. As a Bonus Action you may designate a target within 90 feet that you can see or hear as your prey, marking them in your mind and with your senses. You have Advantage on Wisdom (Survival) or Intelligence (Investigation) checks to track your prey, as well as Wisdom (Perception) checks to find them. In addition, you deal an extra 1d6 of damage to the target whenever you hit it with a weapon attack or +1d8 if it is a creature native to your favored terrain. This extra damage increases with your ranger level (as noted on the Ranger Table).

You can have only one creature designated as your prey at a time. Your designation lasts until your next Long Rest, or until you designate a new creature as your prey. You may designate prey a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus between Short or Long rests.

At higher levels, you gain additional abilities against your marked prey. The levels I choose are based on my 10 level hack of 5e, but 1 of them gives you a chance to Daze the prey and later to make their speed 0 until the beginning of your next turn when you hit them (in addition to the bonus damage). The hunter subclass also grants other abilities connected to Hunter's Vision.

Also my rangers only get spells if they choose the "Warden" subclass, otherwise no spells for them.
I can't imagine playing a ranger with, from my perspective as someone who sees magic as definitive to the ranger, no subclass and only 1/3 casting.

Have you considered making spellcasting a level 1 "holy order but bigger" choice, instead?

Not being flippant, genuinely curious.
5e should just embrace the 1e definition of Ranger.

Rangers are a sub class of fighter who are adept at woodcraft, tracking, scouting, infiltration, and spying.

Done and done.
No.
 

Some buffs that it needed, but mostly it was just a great package to build around. A big issue in 3E is classes that are all in on only one pillar, and the PF1 ranger gets goodies in every bucket. Its my favorite class next to bard and witch from that era.


let's not get crazy GIF by Shadowhunters's not get crazy GIF by Shadowhunters
Oh I am very consistently crazy on this topic. 3.5 has the ranger, the bard, and not much else that I like.

Which sucks because those are my favorite iterations of official dnd ranger and bard...

Like, translate the 3.5 Bard into 5e, make songs a bonus action to activate, tweak as needed, pluck some goodies from 4e and 5e for spice and to round things out, and you'd have what I wanted the 5e Bard to be.

The Ranger might need a bit more work than that, but not much. Replace favored enemy with 4e hunter's quarry + tracking stuff. Spellcasting at level 1 obv.
Ranger doesn't have an identity problem.
Sure it does. It has the problem that wotc sucks are executing on it's identity while making an effective class. Like I said.
The problem is D&D's mechanics.
Which is what I said. In the OP.
In every edition, Ranger is a switch hitter: Melee and Ranged and sometimes Spell and Sometimes Beast.
Every edition. And this is usually bad out the core. MAD and Multiple Feat Dependency.
Nope. This is almost never the problem. The problem is simply that they don't even try to make the versatile elements of the ranger work on a unified framework, they don't actually deliver on the class being a switch hitter (if you have to choose between specialising on twf and archery, you aren't a switch, you're an archer or a twfer), and they don't integrate spell and beast and weapon fighting.
Choosing melee feats/powers/invocations/knacks/perks/talents doesn't help your ranged feats/powers/invocations/knacks/perks/talents or your pet feats/powers/invocations/knacks/perks/talents.

So the best rangers and what become the ranger identity in D&D: Great at one style Good at another.
You take the strong general stuff: 4E's Twin Strike or 5.5E GWM feat
You take a melee spell, a beast spell, and a ranged spell.

Embrace the MAD. Be the archer with good melee. The beastmaster with a strong bow.
So, where we agree is that spells can help execute identity. I just don't think they can establish it, but they can certainly enhance and help integrate the various elements of it into a cohesive whole.

Establish being a versatile weapon user, and make sure that the spell list supports that and that you can use spells to lean into whatever fighting style you are using.

Establish being able to befriend and fight alongside a beast or a bestial spirit being, and then make sure that the spell list backs that up and allows you to lean into it when you need to by spending spell power.

So, instead of choosing between fighting styles like other classes, make the ranger the class that can change their fighting style when they rest.

Give them the simplest form of a pet as an option by giving them a class feature that lets them calm beasts and understand them, and the find familiar spell, and then let there be a fighting style that leans into having a pet fighting with you, and a subclass that leans harder into the pet, and spells that can boost an ally, etc..
And to make sure the ranger can always lean into the tactics they are using that day, let them prepare spells like a druid, rather than how they do now.

And as for skills, I say ditch expertise entirely and replace it with the ability to choose a handful of skills to add your wisdom mod to, and you can change which skills get the benefit during a long rest.

In what world is a bushcrafting purposeful wanderer who has to be able to be effective no matter the situation or terrain or enemy because the wild can throw anything at you in dnd going to be a siloed specialist in like 1 to 3 skills? What? With like 4 known spells they can't change when the situation changes? Really?? How the hell is that a Ranger?

No. Versatility and flexibility is what the ranger needs, no specialization.
 


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