For examples of how a ranger can shine in urban settings, you may take a look at that old tv-series with the monty in chicago ("Going South" or something I think). There are good examples of the use of tracking in a city, and there is an example of an animal companion as well.
Rangers... the weakest of classes?
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Klaus
First Post
In my campaign, the perty is composed of 3 PCs:
Human Ranger 4
Human Cleric (Pelor) 4
Half-Elf Wizard/Rogue 3/1
The Ranger started out as a core ranger, simply because I wanted to gauge the PHB version first.
And it came out short.
So I was looking for an alt.ranger when I was contacted by a DnD fan that wanted to use three of my pics on his alt.ranger pdf. And that's where I found the alt.ranger that best fitted my image of the ranger (basically, the ranger is the druidical faith's paladin, he is the physical representation of the natural world, as the druid's the spiritual one).
Here's a quick rundown:
HD: originally d8, I recently bumped it back to d10
BAB, Skill List, Skill Points and Spells as per PHB
Armor and Weapon prof. as per PHB
Good Skills: Fort AND Reflex
1 Track, 1 Bonus Feat
2 Child of Nature (Nature Sense)
3
4 Bonus Feat
5 Child of Nature (Woodland Stride)
6 Uncanny Dodge (Dex bonus to AC)
7
8 Child of Nature (Trackless Step)
9
10
11
12 Bonus Feat, Uncanny Dodge (Cannot be Flanked)
13
14 Child of Nature (Resist Nature's Lure)
15
16
17
18 Uncanny Dodge (+1 vs. traps)
19
20 Bonus Feat
The list of bonus feats (not virtual, can be used with exotic weapons, heavy armor, spit and glue):
Alertness, Ambidexterity, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Rapid Shot, Quick Draw, Run, Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Off Hand Parry (S&F), Favored Enemy (choose one type of creature, works like the ability, bonus equal level divided by four {minimum = +1}, damage bonus works on undead and stuff). You could add all the favored enemy feats from MotW to this list.
The Child of Nature abilities are cumulative with the following druid abilities: Nature Sense, Woodland Stride, Trackless Step, Resist Nature's Lure, Venom Immunity, A Thousand Faces, Timeless Body. If the ranger has druid levels, add them up and determine the Child of Nature abilities based on that level, on the druid table (so a ranger 3/druid 5 has all the Child of Nature abilities of a druid 8).
Human Ranger 4
Human Cleric (Pelor) 4
Half-Elf Wizard/Rogue 3/1
The Ranger started out as a core ranger, simply because I wanted to gauge the PHB version first.
And it came out short.
So I was looking for an alt.ranger when I was contacted by a DnD fan that wanted to use three of my pics on his alt.ranger pdf. And that's where I found the alt.ranger that best fitted my image of the ranger (basically, the ranger is the druidical faith's paladin, he is the physical representation of the natural world, as the druid's the spiritual one).
Here's a quick rundown:
HD: originally d8, I recently bumped it back to d10
BAB, Skill List, Skill Points and Spells as per PHB
Armor and Weapon prof. as per PHB
Good Skills: Fort AND Reflex
1 Track, 1 Bonus Feat
2 Child of Nature (Nature Sense)
3
4 Bonus Feat
5 Child of Nature (Woodland Stride)
6 Uncanny Dodge (Dex bonus to AC)
7
8 Child of Nature (Trackless Step)
9
10
11
12 Bonus Feat, Uncanny Dodge (Cannot be Flanked)
13
14 Child of Nature (Resist Nature's Lure)
15
16
17
18 Uncanny Dodge (+1 vs. traps)
19
20 Bonus Feat
The list of bonus feats (not virtual, can be used with exotic weapons, heavy armor, spit and glue):
Alertness, Ambidexterity, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Rapid Shot, Quick Draw, Run, Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Off Hand Parry (S&F), Favored Enemy (choose one type of creature, works like the ability, bonus equal level divided by four {minimum = +1}, damage bonus works on undead and stuff). You could add all the favored enemy feats from MotW to this list.
The Child of Nature abilities are cumulative with the following druid abilities: Nature Sense, Woodland Stride, Trackless Step, Resist Nature's Lure, Venom Immunity, A Thousand Faces, Timeless Body. If the ranger has druid levels, add them up and determine the Child of Nature abilities based on that level, on the druid table (so a ranger 3/druid 5 has all the Child of Nature abilities of a druid 8).
Interesting progression, Klaus. I can only say a few things about your progression.
First, your uncanny dodge goes up every six levels. I believe that the uncanny dodge ability stacks with all classes that have it. I don't remember how the progression goes, but I think it is every 3.
Next, "bonus feat" sounds kind of chincy, and too much like a fighter. How about natural skill or skill of the wild? I think you should also include the feats that the "urban ranger" from MotW, like shadow.
Finally, did you drop or modify spells? Do you use the monty progression?
All in all, I like it, especially the versitility.
First, your uncanny dodge goes up every six levels. I believe that the uncanny dodge ability stacks with all classes that have it. I don't remember how the progression goes, but I think it is every 3.
Next, "bonus feat" sounds kind of chincy, and too much like a fighter. How about natural skill or skill of the wild? I think you should also include the feats that the "urban ranger" from MotW, like shadow.
Finally, did you drop or modify spells? Do you use the monty progression?
All in all, I like it, especially the versitility.
the Jester said:
It’s not just a matter of not sexy enough. What makes the Ranger less powerful (not dramatically, but measurably) is the fact that most other classes get a brand new (i.e. one the character has never had before, not just a slightly improved version of a current one) feat, spell level, or ability close to once every level.
Rangers get a brand new feat, spell level, or ability closer to once every other level.
So, while players of most other character classes gain something new or something improved virtually every level they go up, the player of a Ranger does not. That’s the main reason Rangers are not as sexy and slightly less powerful, lack of continuous improvement and versatility. That and the fact that they have the worst spell selection and a next to useless species enemy ability.
Klaus
First Post
LokiDR said:
Barbarians get UD at 2nd, 5th and 10th. Rogues get at 3rd, 6th and 11th. I agree that all classes that grant UD should be added together and the level of UD should be based on the most advantageous table.
Bonus Feat is merely a descriptive. It could have more flavor, I agree, like natural feat.
As for the spells, I am using the PHB list and progression.
And this ranger is not as front-loaded. An elf PHB-ranger gets Track, Ambidexterity, Two-weapon Fighting plus one feat at 1st level. An elf using this ranger gets Track, and two feats (which COULD be Ambi and TWF, but they could also be Point-Blank and Precise Shot).
Glad you liked it. I wanted to post it, but I can't seem to get in touch with the guy who wrote it (Bill Burcham, IIRC).
Michael Tree
First Post
IMO Rangers are not so much weak as they are uninteresting. Aside from favored enemy (which is just a bonus to a few skills rather than a unique ability), they don't have a single ability that other classes don't get. All other classes have numerous unique cool abilities.
In addition, there's really nothing to look forward to as you gain levels. They gain more skill points and the occasional new spell or favored enemy, but no new crunchy abilities. Advancing levels in the Ranger class is dull.
They're also seriously frontloaded, and their two-weapon abilities make no sense. No other class is tied up to a weapon or fighting style (except monks, for whom unarmed fighting is defining.)
In addition, there's really nothing to look forward to as you gain levels. They gain more skill points and the occasional new spell or favored enemy, but no new crunchy abilities. Advancing levels in the Ranger class is dull.
They're also seriously frontloaded, and their two-weapon abilities make no sense. No other class is tied up to a weapon or fighting style (except monks, for whom unarmed fighting is defining.)
Sir Hawkeye
First Post
Really, most of the trouble with the Ranger comes from lack of flash, or as I like to call it, "coolness factor"
Utility wise the ranger has:
1. Fighter BAB and d10 hit die
2. Two good saves
3. Decent skill points and good list
4. Limited but useful spells.
I would argue that a ranger can replace a fighter. The fighter's feats are impressive, and ranger will never be quite as strong, but the saves and skills can help, especially when you are on either side of an ambush. Later, spells like Entangle, Protection from Elements, and Polymorph Self are helpful in combat.
In a dungeon, one of the better roles for a ranger is 2nd scout. Lone rogues have a habit of getting into lots of trouble, and guys in plate mail are SLOW.
Thoughts on improving the ranger:
1. Custom Spells. Paladins get Holy Sword, etc., after all. This would go a long way toword increasing coolness factor.
2. Virtual feat packages given out over time, e.g.:
1st Ambidex
3rd TWF
6th Improved TWF (yes, this is early for it. Thus, very high coolness
)
OR
1st Point Blank Shot
3rd Precise Shot
6th Rapid Shot
This one seems a bit slow, but I like levels 1,3,6 for this, as those are relatively empty levels for the class. The argument could be made for 1,2,3 or 1,2,6.
Of course, I have a vested interest in the ranger, as I currently play a Rgr9/Ftr2 (fighter for the feats needed to maintain some of the flavor of my profoundly illegal access to Weapon Mastery in 2E. I have since reformed my munchkinnish ways
)
Final Note: Like the Paladin and Monk, the ranger really shines with a good set of ability scores. Str, Dex, and Con are of course important to any fighter-type, but Int and Wis appeal to the ranger far more than they do to a fighter. I would hazard that a ranger can make much better use of lucky rolls or high point buy than a fighter. for 32 points, you can go with five 14s and a 10 in Cha (boring, but a useful example).
Utility wise the ranger has:
1. Fighter BAB and d10 hit die
2. Two good saves
3. Decent skill points and good list
4. Limited but useful spells.
I would argue that a ranger can replace a fighter. The fighter's feats are impressive, and ranger will never be quite as strong, but the saves and skills can help, especially when you are on either side of an ambush. Later, spells like Entangle, Protection from Elements, and Polymorph Self are helpful in combat.
In a dungeon, one of the better roles for a ranger is 2nd scout. Lone rogues have a habit of getting into lots of trouble, and guys in plate mail are SLOW.
Thoughts on improving the ranger:
1. Custom Spells. Paladins get Holy Sword, etc., after all. This would go a long way toword increasing coolness factor.
2. Virtual feat packages given out over time, e.g.:
1st Ambidex
3rd TWF
6th Improved TWF (yes, this is early for it. Thus, very high coolness
) OR
1st Point Blank Shot
3rd Precise Shot
6th Rapid Shot
This one seems a bit slow, but I like levels 1,3,6 for this, as those are relatively empty levels for the class. The argument could be made for 1,2,3 or 1,2,6.
Of course, I have a vested interest in the ranger, as I currently play a Rgr9/Ftr2 (fighter for the feats needed to maintain some of the flavor of my profoundly illegal access to Weapon Mastery in 2E. I have since reformed my munchkinnish ways
)Final Note: Like the Paladin and Monk, the ranger really shines with a good set of ability scores. Str, Dex, and Con are of course important to any fighter-type, but Int and Wis appeal to the ranger far more than they do to a fighter. I would hazard that a ranger can make much better use of lucky rolls or high point buy than a fighter. for 32 points, you can go with five 14s and a 10 in Cha (boring, but a useful example).
Turjan
Explorer
Well, actually the ranger hasn't got so many skill points. He has to invest his ability points into STR, DEX, and WIS in order to get along. CON wouldn't be bad, either . Usually, a wizard has more skill points. Even a fighter may have the same amount because of bonus skill points, after all.
The 32 pt. point buy is a different story, though
.
. Usually, a wizard has more skill points. Even a fighter may have the same amount because of bonus skill points, after all.The 32 pt. point buy is a different story, though
.
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