Rank the D&D 3.5 classes!
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Holy Bovine
First Post
Better not let my player hear you say that! His paladin of Corean can dish out 50+ points of damages for no less than 7 hits/day (with smite). He is the LGMF Talon talks about!
Unfortunately I can't rank the new classes as I have only just d/l the SRD and haven't had a chance to get a good look at it.
Fedifensor
Explorer
Well, I think almost everyone agrees about the cleric. Here's my rankings:
1)Cleric - Domains really push a cleric over the top. You're already a flexible spellcaster and second-tier fighter, and domains can add attack spells, bonus feats, unique abilities...really allowing you to make the character just the way you like it.
2)Monk - At 20th level, a fighter's attack bonus is +20/+15/+10/+5. A monk's is +15/+15/+15/+10/+5...which means only the fighter's first attack hits better than the monk. Add in enough special abilities to choke a horse, a lack of item dependence (that all other classes suffer from), and SR (!!!), and you have a really tough combo. Their only problem is their dependency on high stats...but they're much better off than a paladin.
3)Ranger - BAB of a fighter, one less HP per level, but loads more skills and special abilities. They don't have as many bonus feats...but they still get three on top of everything else. Fighters have a slight edge with heavier armor, but the Ranger is a much more flexible character, that can fill multiple roles. In particular, many adventures need a person who can track.
4)Barbarian - With the changes to DR and Rage, the Barbarian is a more durable combatant than the Fighter. The lower-magic the game is, the better off the Barbarian will be.
5)Wizard - The spell changes (especially Haste) has lowered their ranking, but they're still a solid choice...especially when you specialize. Quicken spell puts them WAY ahead of Sorcerers.
6)Rogue - Sneak attacks are horribly powerful against anything vulnerable to them, and they are the skill gods. However, against certain foes or situations they're as useless as a spellcaster fighting a high SR creature.
7)Fighter - A solid class, but one that becomes rather inflexible. The Weapon Focus and Specialization feats mean that most fighters rely on a single weapon. Take it away or Sunder it, and they lose a lot of effectiveness. They also suffer from the "diminishing returns" problem. They can meet the requirements for any feat by 12th level. This means that any feat chosen after 12th becomes something that's a secondary or tertiary choice for them. This is a class that you take for 4, 8, or at most 12 levels, then go into something else.
8)Druid - I'm probably underrating them, but they're just nowhere near the power of Clerics. 1 less spell per spell level (no domains) and no spontaneous casting of cure spells. The animal companion would place them higher on my list, but there's many times where it's just inappropriate to bring them along (good luck bringing your bear into a city adventure). The wild shape is very nice, though the lack of extrordinary special qualities is a downside (can't even see in the dark).
9)Bard - They've definately improved from 3.0. However, many spells offer morale bonuses, which don't stack with their bardic song. They can still be quite effective, especially if they focus on Enchantment spells...but I'd still rather rely on a heavy-duty caster or fighter-type in a tough fight.
10)Sorcerer - In tough combats, mages rely on their highest level spell first. Sorcerers get their highest level spell one level later than wizards, and only have one choice of what they cast at that level. They also max out at one spell/round, because of the Haste changes and no Quicken option. To top it all off, no bonus feats. People say that metamagic on the fly balances this out...but aside from Quicken, metamagic is an overpriced way to change the effect of a spell.
11)Paladin - A fighter-type with good saving throws, a few interesting special abilities, and spells. However, they're horrible under standard point buy for stats, since they need Str, Con, Wis, and Cha as high as possible (preferably 14+ in each), and an argument can be made for a 12 Dex as well (for an AC bonus in full plate). Also, they don't get ANY bonus feats...at least the ranger has two choices for a chain of three extra feats.
1)Cleric - Domains really push a cleric over the top. You're already a flexible spellcaster and second-tier fighter, and domains can add attack spells, bonus feats, unique abilities...really allowing you to make the character just the way you like it.
2)Monk - At 20th level, a fighter's attack bonus is +20/+15/+10/+5. A monk's is +15/+15/+15/+10/+5...which means only the fighter's first attack hits better than the monk. Add in enough special abilities to choke a horse, a lack of item dependence (that all other classes suffer from), and SR (!!!), and you have a really tough combo. Their only problem is their dependency on high stats...but they're much better off than a paladin.
3)Ranger - BAB of a fighter, one less HP per level, but loads more skills and special abilities. They don't have as many bonus feats...but they still get three on top of everything else. Fighters have a slight edge with heavier armor, but the Ranger is a much more flexible character, that can fill multiple roles. In particular, many adventures need a person who can track.
4)Barbarian - With the changes to DR and Rage, the Barbarian is a more durable combatant than the Fighter. The lower-magic the game is, the better off the Barbarian will be.
5)Wizard - The spell changes (especially Haste) has lowered their ranking, but they're still a solid choice...especially when you specialize. Quicken spell puts them WAY ahead of Sorcerers.
6)Rogue - Sneak attacks are horribly powerful against anything vulnerable to them, and they are the skill gods. However, against certain foes or situations they're as useless as a spellcaster fighting a high SR creature.
7)Fighter - A solid class, but one that becomes rather inflexible. The Weapon Focus and Specialization feats mean that most fighters rely on a single weapon. Take it away or Sunder it, and they lose a lot of effectiveness. They also suffer from the "diminishing returns" problem. They can meet the requirements for any feat by 12th level. This means that any feat chosen after 12th becomes something that's a secondary or tertiary choice for them. This is a class that you take for 4, 8, or at most 12 levels, then go into something else.
8)Druid - I'm probably underrating them, but they're just nowhere near the power of Clerics. 1 less spell per spell level (no domains) and no spontaneous casting of cure spells. The animal companion would place them higher on my list, but there's many times where it's just inappropriate to bring them along (good luck bringing your bear into a city adventure). The wild shape is very nice, though the lack of extrordinary special qualities is a downside (can't even see in the dark).
9)Bard - They've definately improved from 3.0. However, many spells offer morale bonuses, which don't stack with their bardic song. They can still be quite effective, especially if they focus on Enchantment spells...but I'd still rather rely on a heavy-duty caster or fighter-type in a tough fight.
10)Sorcerer - In tough combats, mages rely on their highest level spell first. Sorcerers get their highest level spell one level later than wizards, and only have one choice of what they cast at that level. They also max out at one spell/round, because of the Haste changes and no Quicken option. To top it all off, no bonus feats. People say that metamagic on the fly balances this out...but aside from Quicken, metamagic is an overpriced way to change the effect of a spell.
11)Paladin - A fighter-type with good saving throws, a few interesting special abilities, and spells. However, they're horrible under standard point buy for stats, since they need Str, Con, Wis, and Cha as high as possible (preferably 14+ in each), and an argument can be made for a 12 Dex as well (for an AC bonus in full plate). Also, they don't get ANY bonus feats...at least the ranger has two choices for a chain of three extra feats.
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Li Shenron
Legend
1. Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Wizard
2. Adept, Aristocrat, Expert, Warrior
3. Commoner
2. Adept, Aristocrat, Expert, Warrior
3. Commoner
LazarusLong42
First Post
OK, I'll bite.
1) Cleric. Overpowered in 3.0, overpowered in 3.5, but that's not a complaint.
2) Bard. Like seasong, I have to be a naysayer, though I rank the Bard even higher. Need to be healed? Need a spellcaster? Need an archer? Need a lock picked? Need a diplomat? Need +1 to all your attack and damage rolls, every single combat? Yep, the Bard can do all that. Oh yeah, and sing pretty darn well, too.
3) Fighter. For sheer, raw power, you can't beat the fighter's weapon specialization, the fighter's number of feats, or the fighter's pure badassitude.
4) Rogue. Evasion and uncanny dodge are a powerful defensive combination. Add the Expertise feat and you can sit in melee and deal huge amounts of damage. Plus you get a bazillion skill points.
5) Barbarian. All the uncanny dodge and rage in the world doesn't make up for lack of evasion when facing fireballs. But even without that, the Barbarian is a damage-dealing machine, especially when raging. Unfortunately, that's all the depth he has.
6) Wizard. Magic missile. Fireball. Cone of cold. I think that pretty much sums it up. There may be other spells that are more powerful, but the... dare I say it... iconic spells are always the best, and the Wizard gets them a level before...
7) Sorcerer. One level behind the Wizard in spells, a lot less spell selection, but she gets to set up her metamagic as needed and can throw spells all day, long after the wizard has pulled out a crossbow.
8) Ranger. The poor ranger is a hodgepodge of abilities that pack quite a punch, but never quite come together as a coherent package or synergize with one another.
9) Paladin. Guy. On a horse. With a sword. Sure, it's a celestial horse, and that smite ability's nothing to laugh at, but in the end he's a guy on a horse with a sword, and not near as many feats as the Fighter. Plus, he does not have badassitude. That would be against his code.
10) Druid. The almost-a-cleric-not-quite-a-ranger-animal-summoner-shape-changer. Lots of spells with a crappy spell selection; nerfed wildshape; need I go on?
11) Monk. I like the Monk. It's a cool class. But it's approximately as powerful as a FunNoodle. That extra speed and evasion are nice, but Flurry of Misses and a bunch of odd, non-synergizing abilities, plus the inability to get the most out of his abilities while using most weapons, make him the weakest of the bunch. (Notable exception: the Monk starts getting pretty awesome around, say, 18th level. Assuming there's a druid around to cast GMF.)
1) Cleric. Overpowered in 3.0, overpowered in 3.5, but that's not a complaint.
2) Bard. Like seasong, I have to be a naysayer, though I rank the Bard even higher. Need to be healed? Need a spellcaster? Need an archer? Need a lock picked? Need a diplomat? Need +1 to all your attack and damage rolls, every single combat? Yep, the Bard can do all that. Oh yeah, and sing pretty darn well, too.
3) Fighter. For sheer, raw power, you can't beat the fighter's weapon specialization, the fighter's number of feats, or the fighter's pure badassitude.
4) Rogue. Evasion and uncanny dodge are a powerful defensive combination. Add the Expertise feat and you can sit in melee and deal huge amounts of damage. Plus you get a bazillion skill points.
5) Barbarian. All the uncanny dodge and rage in the world doesn't make up for lack of evasion when facing fireballs. But even without that, the Barbarian is a damage-dealing machine, especially when raging. Unfortunately, that's all the depth he has.
6) Wizard. Magic missile. Fireball. Cone of cold. I think that pretty much sums it up. There may be other spells that are more powerful, but the... dare I say it... iconic spells are always the best, and the Wizard gets them a level before...
7) Sorcerer. One level behind the Wizard in spells, a lot less spell selection, but she gets to set up her metamagic as needed and can throw spells all day, long after the wizard has pulled out a crossbow.
8) Ranger. The poor ranger is a hodgepodge of abilities that pack quite a punch, but never quite come together as a coherent package or synergize with one another.
9) Paladin. Guy. On a horse. With a sword. Sure, it's a celestial horse, and that smite ability's nothing to laugh at, but in the end he's a guy on a horse with a sword, and not near as many feats as the Fighter. Plus, he does not have badassitude. That would be against his code.
10) Druid. The almost-a-cleric-not-quite-a-ranger-animal-summoner-shape-changer. Lots of spells with a crappy spell selection; nerfed wildshape; need I go on?
11) Monk. I like the Monk. It's a cool class. But it's approximately as powerful as a FunNoodle. That extra speed and evasion are nice, but Flurry of Misses and a bunch of odd, non-synergizing abilities, plus the inability to get the most out of his abilities while using most weapons, make him the weakest of the bunch. (Notable exception: the Monk starts getting pretty awesome around, say, 18th level. Assuming there's a druid around to cast GMF.)
I haved added some weekend votes to the tally. We are now up to 41 votes. Here are the averages so far:
1. Cleric - 2.32
2. Wizard - 3.12
3. Druid - 4.15
4. Sorcerer - 5.66
5. Rogue - 5.68
6. Barbarian - 6.10
7. Fighter - 6.56
8. Ranger - 6.63
9. Paladin - 7.59
10. Monk - 8.37
11. Bard - 9.80
If you havent ranked the classes yet, please post your rankings.
1. Cleric - 2.32
2. Wizard - 3.12
3. Druid - 4.15
4. Sorcerer - 5.66
5. Rogue - 5.68
6. Barbarian - 6.10
7. Fighter - 6.56
8. Ranger - 6.63
9. Paladin - 7.59
10. Monk - 8.37
11. Bard - 9.80
If you havent ranked the classes yet, please post your rankings.
Branduil
Hero
1)Cleric- Real Ultimate Power
2)Druid- A close second. 1st in Wilderness campaigns.
3)Wizard- Still one of the moset insanely powerful classes there is.
4)Rogue- Can do almost anything if he wants to. Only thing that weakens him is the immunity most things have to sneak attack at high levels.
5)Sorceror- Weaker brother of the wizard.
6)Barbarian- Look out for Sundering Barbs with Adamantine Greatswords.
7)Ranger- Best survivalist of the warrior classes.
8)Paladin- Evil creatures finally have something to fear.
9)Monk- Still 100-trick pony.
10)Fighter- Still 1-trick pony.
11)Bard- Still no-trick pony.
2)Druid- A close second. 1st in Wilderness campaigns.
3)Wizard- Still one of the moset insanely powerful classes there is.
4)Rogue- Can do almost anything if he wants to. Only thing that weakens him is the immunity most things have to sneak attack at high levels.
5)Sorceror- Weaker brother of the wizard.
6)Barbarian- Look out for Sundering Barbs with Adamantine Greatswords.
7)Ranger- Best survivalist of the warrior classes.
8)Paladin- Evil creatures finally have something to fear.
9)Monk- Still 100-trick pony.
10)Fighter- Still 1-trick pony.
11)Bard- Still no-trick pony.
We are up to 52 votes at this point. Here are the averages so far:
1. Cleric: 2.21
2. Wizard: 3.08
3. Druid: 3.94
4. Rogue: 5.83
5. Sorcerer: 6.00 (tie)
6. Barbarian: 6.00 (tie)
7. Fighter: 6.58
8. Ranger: 6.77
9. Paladin: 7.40
10. Monk: 8.35
11. Bard: 9.83
If you havent voted yet, please remember to vote.
1. Cleric: 2.21
2. Wizard: 3.08
3. Druid: 3.94
4. Rogue: 5.83
5. Sorcerer: 6.00 (tie)
6. Barbarian: 6.00 (tie)
7. Fighter: 6.58
8. Ranger: 6.77
9. Paladin: 7.40
10. Monk: 8.35
11. Bard: 9.83
If you havent voted yet, please remember to vote.
