I disagree on what you said to the cleric because I am playing a cleric who at 1st lvl does 2d6+3 with his great sword without preparation and already owns a temple has an ac of 18 soon to be 20 when you are playing a cleric I suggest a lot of feats that make your turn undeads do stuff like add to your healing ability or give you ghost touch weapon or give you smite or dmg reduction clerics are very powerfull and I suggest the juggernaut armor ac + 10 and the wall blade 2d8 dmg that with the buffs you are the most powerful class
Rank the D&D 3.5 classes!
- Thread starter greymarch
- Start date
James Gasik
We don't talk about Pun-Pun
1. Wizard is king. While it's true the Cleric has a better chassis for defense, and their Domains let them grab some neat arcane spells, the breadth and depth of arcane shenanigans cannot be ignored. Add to that bonus feats to do some of the most broken stuff in the game (like magic item creation to break WBL in half), and better skills (due to being Int-focused), there's not many limits for a Wizard once they figure out how not to get stabbbed to death by goblins. Also, it's worth noting that it's hard to build a Cleric that can actually use all their advantages- melee and heavy armor require Strength, you'll want Con to be anywhere near combat, you really don't want to dump Charisma as there are neat uses for Turn attempts, and Wisdom governs your spells...unless you roll amazing stats, you'll likely have terrible Initiative and Skills.
2. But the Cleric is still right here. It's close between a Cleric and a kitted out Druid, but more spells thanks to having Domain slots and Divine Metamagic puts them solidly here.
3. Druids are next. It can be a little rough to figure out your AC woes with Wild Shape, but you can get a lot of mileage out of an animal companion, and the Druid spell list is surprisingly effective at most levels.
4. Sorcerer should be higher, since they share the Wizard spell list. But no real class features of note, and a super limited spell list really holds them back. They can't afford to spend many spells known on magics that aren't going to be used on a day to day basis, and it's unlikely they'll have the silver bullet spells to deal with major problems.
5. Bards don't have a lot going for them, but their bardic inspiration is a nice buff, and spells cover a lot of sins. If you go splat book diving, you can find things like Dragonsong Inspiration and Snowflake Wardance to really make them shine.
6. Barbarians are the melee class of choice. Big hit points, big damage with rage, and a better skill package than the Fighter. AC is weak, and if you're not careful, you'll die when your Rage ends, but fast movement and uncanny dodge are nice things to have.
7. Ranger has some lackluster abilities, but they have a really good skills package, and bonus Feats they don't need to meet the prerequisites for. Two-Weapon Fighting is a trap in 3.5 but there are some really good alternate class features and toys they can acquire, like Sword of the Arcane Order. Splatbooks give them some really neat spells as well.
8. I hate putting Paladin here, since their immunities and save bonuses are amazing, but they lack feats, they lack skills, Smite is a limited resource that doesn't even work on some enemies, and their healing is weak unless you have a really high Charisma. But they do get some neat spells.
9. It was a hard choice, but I'll put Rogue here. Once Skill Tricks are on the table, their superior Skill package can be leveraged into usefulness. The variant Rogue from Unearthed Arcana that trades Sneak Attack for Feats is worth a look. Sneak Attack is a weird ability- it does a lot of damage when you meet it's requirements, but the Rogue has weak hit points, AC, and their attack bonus is lackluster, with no way to increase it with buffs like the Cleric has. And let's not talk about the ability score requirements, as you can't even start with Weapon Finesse, and even if you do use Dexterity to hit, your damage is going to be terrible when Sneak Attack isn't online. Plus there is a host of creatures Sneak Attack doesn't work on, forcing you to invest in magic or alternate class features to get it to even function more than half the time. If you could Sneak Attack from range that would be fine, but oh no, sorry, 30' only. Fortunately, investing in Use Magic Device can help a higher level Rogue out immensely, but really, you'd be better off as a Bard.
10. The Fighter has the advantage of being customizable, but he has to meet the requirements for his Feats, which can be a real pain, since many that you'll want are locked behind Combat Expertise, requiring a 13 or better Int. You'll find yourself wanting Dodge as well, so now you need a decent Dex. Saves are bad, skills are bad, and their AC isn't better than a Cleric's. Good for making a specific build, but easy to foil.
11. I feel bad for the Monk, but the ability score requirements are insane. Just like the Rogue, they can't start with Weapon Finesse, and they will still want Strength to deal any kind of damage. Dex, Con, and Wis need to be high. A decent skills package is held back because you probably can't invest in much Intelligence. There are some variant Monks out there like Kung Fu Genius or Carmendine Monks, but you still have to deal with Flurry of Misses, an odd requirement for magic items to fix the problems of your class (expensive ones at that) despite your host of supernatural abilities, and the fact that many creatures have a good Fortitude save means Stunning Fist won't work as often as you need it to. You do have good saves though, but at higher levels, a Paladin might outpace you. Avoid unless you're a super-optimizer or like a challenge.
2. But the Cleric is still right here. It's close between a Cleric and a kitted out Druid, but more spells thanks to having Domain slots and Divine Metamagic puts them solidly here.
3. Druids are next. It can be a little rough to figure out your AC woes with Wild Shape, but you can get a lot of mileage out of an animal companion, and the Druid spell list is surprisingly effective at most levels.
4. Sorcerer should be higher, since they share the Wizard spell list. But no real class features of note, and a super limited spell list really holds them back. They can't afford to spend many spells known on magics that aren't going to be used on a day to day basis, and it's unlikely they'll have the silver bullet spells to deal with major problems.
5. Bards don't have a lot going for them, but their bardic inspiration is a nice buff, and spells cover a lot of sins. If you go splat book diving, you can find things like Dragonsong Inspiration and Snowflake Wardance to really make them shine.
6. Barbarians are the melee class of choice. Big hit points, big damage with rage, and a better skill package than the Fighter. AC is weak, and if you're not careful, you'll die when your Rage ends, but fast movement and uncanny dodge are nice things to have.
7. Ranger has some lackluster abilities, but they have a really good skills package, and bonus Feats they don't need to meet the prerequisites for. Two-Weapon Fighting is a trap in 3.5 but there are some really good alternate class features and toys they can acquire, like Sword of the Arcane Order. Splatbooks give them some really neat spells as well.
8. I hate putting Paladin here, since their immunities and save bonuses are amazing, but they lack feats, they lack skills, Smite is a limited resource that doesn't even work on some enemies, and their healing is weak unless you have a really high Charisma. But they do get some neat spells.
9. It was a hard choice, but I'll put Rogue here. Once Skill Tricks are on the table, their superior Skill package can be leveraged into usefulness. The variant Rogue from Unearthed Arcana that trades Sneak Attack for Feats is worth a look. Sneak Attack is a weird ability- it does a lot of damage when you meet it's requirements, but the Rogue has weak hit points, AC, and their attack bonus is lackluster, with no way to increase it with buffs like the Cleric has. And let's not talk about the ability score requirements, as you can't even start with Weapon Finesse, and even if you do use Dexterity to hit, your damage is going to be terrible when Sneak Attack isn't online. Plus there is a host of creatures Sneak Attack doesn't work on, forcing you to invest in magic or alternate class features to get it to even function more than half the time. If you could Sneak Attack from range that would be fine, but oh no, sorry, 30' only. Fortunately, investing in Use Magic Device can help a higher level Rogue out immensely, but really, you'd be better off as a Bard.
10. The Fighter has the advantage of being customizable, but he has to meet the requirements for his Feats, which can be a real pain, since many that you'll want are locked behind Combat Expertise, requiring a 13 or better Int. You'll find yourself wanting Dodge as well, so now you need a decent Dex. Saves are bad, skills are bad, and their AC isn't better than a Cleric's. Good for making a specific build, but easy to foil.
11. I feel bad for the Monk, but the ability score requirements are insane. Just like the Rogue, they can't start with Weapon Finesse, and they will still want Strength to deal any kind of damage. Dex, Con, and Wis need to be high. A decent skills package is held back because you probably can't invest in much Intelligence. There are some variant Monks out there like Kung Fu Genius or Carmendine Monks, but you still have to deal with Flurry of Misses, an odd requirement for magic items to fix the problems of your class (expensive ones at that) despite your host of supernatural abilities, and the fact that many creatures have a good Fortitude save means Stunning Fist won't work as often as you need it to. You do have good saves though, but at higher levels, a Paladin might outpace you. Avoid unless you're a super-optimizer or like a challenge.
Mezuka
Hero
You do realize this poster was last seen 'Last seen Nov 29, 2012', his post is from 2003.
Carry on.
James Gasik
We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Ooh, I didn't even notice this was an ancient thread! I'm a Necromancer and didn't know it!
Post your rankings for the D&D 3.5 classes here. These rankings should be based on how powerful you think each class is relative to each other, and relative to the monsters and NPCs you might fight in your campaigns. DO NOT post your list based upon which classes you like to play the most, or which ones you think are the "most cool." Simply list the classes based upon raw power.
Here is my list:
1. Wizard - was #1 in 1st edition D&D, was #1 in 2nd edition D&D, was #1 in Third Edition D&D, and is still #1 in D&D 3.5
2. Cleric - they have some amazing spells on their spell lists. Anyone read Holy Word yet in D&D 3.5? Thats just a sample of their wonderful spells. D8 hit points, ability to cast spells in heavy armor, ability to turn undead. Clerics rock in D&D 3.5.
3. Sorcerer - the inability to use quickened spells effectively keeps
them out of the top 2.
4. Fighter - all those feats! If you own all of the splat books, and Forgotten Realms books, you can take some serious feats, and do some serious damage with a fighter.
5. Ranger - In 1st edition D&D, rangers were one of the best classes in the game. In 2nd edition, rangers stunk up the joint. In 3rd edition D&D rangers still stunk up the joint. Now in D&D 3.5, rangers kick butt again. Giving rangers evasion, and three bonus feats for dual-wielding makes them a wonderful class. Their spell list improved dramatically too. Cat's Grace, Bear's Endurance, Owl's Wisdom. Hello??? This is good stuff people.
6. Barbarians - D12 hit dice, Uncanny dodge, rage, and better damage reduction really makes a barbarian shine.
7. Paladins - they get to smite more often in D&D 3.5. I havent found any significant nerfs to them yet. They are still a good class, especially if you have a high charisma. Getting that charisma ability modifier to saving throws is invaluable!
8. Monks - monks still suffer from the same problem they had in 3rd edition...they cant hit anyone! They added amulet of mighty fists to the DMG, and that should help with their to hit rolls, but other melee classes will have weapons with the same modifiers at the same levels, so a monk will never catch up to the other melee classes when it comes to how often they hit.
9. Rogue - Rogues got nerfed a little in D&D 3.5, but thats not necessarily a bad thing. It takes a little longer to get some of their good abilities, but they still get them. In the gaming groups I have been a part of, the DMs like to use lots of undead, constructs, and elementals, so rogues dont get to use their sneak attack very often. If your DM uses lots of NPCs, then you might want to move rogue higher up your list.
10. Druids - IMO, the key to playing a druid in D&D 3.5 is to completely understand and manipulate the animal companion rules, and to use wildshape to your advantage. Unfortunately, I think both of these abilities stink, so unless you have a very open-minded DM, a druid is a lousy class. Their spell list is not as good as a cleric or wizard, their pets will never be quite powerful enough to make a big difference, and their wildshape ability has too many limitations.
11. Bard - bards blew chunks in 3rd edition D&D, and they still blow chunks in D&D 3.5. Bards really are more of a roleplaying class. They have a few decent defensive spells on their spell list, but power-wise, they are at the bottom of the list.
Remember, these are just my opinions. Proving or disproving any of the above statements can be difficult, yet rewarding. So...lets see your lists!
glass
(he, him)
That fact that people get things wrong does not invalidate those who get it right.
_
glass.
James Gasik
We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Yes, Truenamer is that bad. The DC's scale beyond your ability to actually make Truenaming checks as you go up in level. If a class requires you to make custom magic items to have a prayer of success, there's a problem.
