Rank the D&D 3.5 classes!

I love how all over the place this thread was, really puts into perspective just how nonsensical the whole tier list nonsense was from the start

Well the topic was started at the very beginning of 3.5 at the latest, so it wasn't informed by all of 3.5's bloat and powercreep. There weren't a whole bunch of new base classes watering down the traditional niches.

The tier list may be a useful tool for certain purposes, but it doesn't take into account player skill. Min-maxers can still do better with a low tier character than a less optimized player can with a high tier.
 

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I don't think it was nonsense, you can establish a metric by which classes can be measured. The problem is, each player has a different game experience. It is quite possible that the only Druid you ever played with was lackluster, the DM said some of their spells, like entangle don't work in dungeons, their animal companions die all the time, and wild shape seems pointless.

In another game, the Druid may be the most powerful character, and makes most of the other classes seem pointless and lame. All a tier list does is indicate potential. A class with access to great spells, lots of skills, and powerful ways to defend themselves, destroy or inhibit their enemies, and a lot of "narrative power" has a higher ceiling than one whose schtick is "martial weapons, heavy armor, shields, feats, good BAB, weak saves and no skills". Where the floor is, however, is a bit subjective.

Fighter was intended to be a simple class, but just like the Sorcerer, it proves to be one of the hardest and most complex, because you really need to plan ahead and carefully consider each build choice, because there are few (or no) opportunities to change them. I saw a lot of early Fighters avoid "situational" abilities, focusing on Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Toughness, Improved Initiative, etc., etc., wanting to have basic, numerical, and "always on" abilities. I remember in my very first game a player declaring their Combat Reflexes Feat to be completely useless, because they had no reach, and enemies had no real reason to try to get away from them.

And they refused to accept enlarge person because it would lower their precious Dexterity. In the very next campaign, I played a Cleric with the Strength Domain and a longspear, and I got opportunity attacks all the time, to the point that enemies started to avoid me like the plague- fine by me, as I was a spellcaster and had all the spells to keep my party fighting (and once the Barbarian heard "3d6 weapon damage", he was begging me to use my daily Enlarge on him).
 


Well not being forced to wear heavy armor would be nice, especially if your DM likes group Stealth checks. Every time I played in AL game that asked for a group Stealth check, I just shook my head, because there's usually at least 2 heavy armored guys who are going to make even the most fantastic Stealth check pointless.

Plus lighter armor is cheaper, and is especially nice if you play with a DM who wants to use Encumbrance. I'm not saying that having better ability scores across the board is useless, but it has less of an impact on the perceived issues with higher level play than one might suppose.

Some classes get more mileage out of more good ability scores than others. It's really all about the Feats, as there are some really nice ones, but most Feats are outshined by spells the same way everything else is.

I mean, look at the PAM/Sentinel Fighter. Now imagine if Fighters could cast Spirit Guardians. and Spiritual Weapon. One of these things is not like the other!
 

I'm throwing my hat in for the commoner class!

It's the most realistic and mundane class. Mundaneness always had a strong appeal to many.

It's the most popular in world class there is. For every classed Fighter, there are a hundred commoners.

Also, if most of us were stated into D&D classes, we would be commoners. So a vote against the commoner is a vote against yourself!
 

I don't play D&D to be me. That's why I insist on playing the wizard. It's the only class that can keep up with my power fantasies.
 

I just realized this was revived from 2003.

The best class could mean many things. Imho, it’s whatever the player wants to play. From playing and DMing 3.5e all these years, the most survivable class is Cleric. The easiest to play is Fighter. The most iconic to the system is Expert or Warrior - it’s a system where monsters and NPC’s get classes too. The most “powerful“ is uninteresting to me, and really depends on the world and DM - Wizards can be powerful and/or glass cannons.
 

I just realized this was revived from 2003.

The best class could mean many things. Imho, it’s whatever the player wants to play. From playing and DMing 3.5e all these years, the most survivable class is Cleric. The easiest to play is Fighter. The most iconic to the system is Expert or Warrior - it’s a system where monsters and NPC’s get classes too. The most “powerful“ is uninteresting to me, and really depends on the world and DM - Wizards can be powerful and/or glass cannons.
I made the same mistake, lol. I need an "assistant Necromancer" badge.
 

None of these rankings consider skills.
Rangers, rogues, bards and monks balance their abilities with their large skill pools.
I agree clerics are super badass, but they have virtually no skills, especially as intelligence is not a priority stat. They will likely be the first to set off a trap, fail a jump or drown.
 

That's because there are magical ways to get around skills. For example, traps? Just toss out a Summon Monster 1 and send a critter down the hall ahead of you. Or let the Barbarian do the same and heal him afterwards.
 

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