[Rant] is D&D going the way of the CCG?

[zoroaster100]

I don't understand the complaint

If you bought the core books for 3e and are happy without any changes to those rules, you can just keep using those rules with the enormous support that was provided by WotC for a couple of years, directly through their supplements and by having made available the D20 license for other publishers. There are supplements for just about everything imaginable now.

If WotC didn't come up with a revised, improved set of rules, and they stopped making enough money from D&D, then there might not be much official support for the old 3e rules anyway. As I see it, its a no lose situation for gamers to have a new and improved version of the rules. It's our choice to stick with the old rules or upgrade to the new ones. It just give us more options.

 

[John Crichton]

While I am not thrilled at the prospect of spending more money to get the new books I am very happy that WotC is making changes that I believe will benefit my game. And considering the amount of use I have gotten from my current 3e books I will be glad to retire them to the corner of my shelf that is no longer in use. They have served me well, brought me much enjoyment and I'm sure they will be quite happy to get some long-deserved rest after years of abuse.

Initial investment in 3 Core D&D books: $60.
2 sets of basic dice: $12
Spending hours of fun on planning and playing D&D with buds: Priceless

... you know someone had to do it.

 

[shadow]

I suppose I went off a little on the rant. I understand that the SRD will be released for free. This is a good thing, since I'm not sure that I'm wanting to spend $90 on the new books (though I will check them out and consider buying them.) The biggest problem that I have though, is the issue of backwards compatibility. In the last year I have spend literally hundreds of dollars on gaming supplies. And of course I haven't gotten a chance to use them all yet. With the release of 3.5e I'm wondering how many of the gaming books that I've brought will be inconpatible with the new rules. For example, I brought the Epic Level Handbook a few months back and haven't gotten around to running an epic level game yet. Since 3.5e changes many of the core classes it will really screw up the epic level progressions presented in the ELH. This means that if I switch to 3.5e, I brought the ELH for nothing. Moreover, I'm really questioning how much better these changes will make the game. The fact is, you can't please everyone. I'm sure there will be just as many people whining that the 3.5e ranger is "broken" as there are people whining about the 3e ranger.

 

[dren]

I am THRILLED with the 3.5 revisions. I didn't want to buy these books when I first heard of them, but as soon as I saw what was proposed I changed my mind.

As for WoTC milking this, let them! Let them make their money, in order to keep their great staff there. I rarely buy stuff from WoTC anyway, I analyze how the books will be used in my homebrew world before making any purchase, and didn't bother with any of the splatbooks nor some of the other "essential" releases in the last year. Most of the money I spend go in pdfs, cheaper and easier for me to use. (Thank you Mr Cook!)

But baby, I'm there as soon as this stuff hits the shelves. And if you can wait a few months, there's always Christmas.

 

[John Crichton]

I suppose I went off a little on the rant. I understand that the SRD will be released for free. This is a good thing, since I'm not sure that I'm wanting to spend $90 on the new books (though I will check them out and consider buying them.) The biggest problem that I have though, is the issue of backwards compatibility. In the last year I have spend literally hundreds of dollars on gaming supplies. And of course I haven't gotten a chance to use them all yet. With the release of 3.5e I'm wondering how many of the gaming books that I've brought will be inconpatible with the new rules. For example, I brought the Epic Level Handbook a few months back and haven't gotten around to running an epic level game yet. Since 3.5e changes many of the core classes it will really screw up the epic level progressions presented in the ELH. This means that if I switch to 3.5e, I brought the ELH for nothing. Moreover, I'm really questioning how much better these changes will make the game. The fact is, you can't please everyone. I'm sure there will be just as many people whining that the 3.5e ranger is "broken" as there are people whining about the 3e ranger.

For compatability, I'm sure WotC will make converting and epic level game to 3.5 do-able. Otherwise they will be killing their sales of that book. The only thing that will need to be done in most of the products released up until this point is some conversions. Shouldn't take that long after you get the hang of it. Most major products I'm sure will have some kind of support from the writer to covert it to the new rules. And even if it doesn't, someone in the gaming community is sure to make it happen. It been happening for years as it is with old 1e & 2e modules so I see no reason for it to stop now.

 

[Victim]

I'd expect web enhancements to come out for most WotC products soon after 3.5. Just like they've been slowing adding Epic things for other books.

 

[Pielorinho]

Re: Arrg!

If someone says, "I don't want to pay $90 for something that contains less original material than what I paid $60 for," then there are people who respond with comments like "Quit whining, suck it up, and shell out."

People are saying, "Quit Whining." People are saying, "Suck it up." But I don't think people are saying, "Shell out."

Me? I don't know if I'm going to buy these books. I'll take a look at them, sure, and I'll talk to folks about them. But I'm hoping to buy a house in the next year or so, and on my nonprofit salary I can't afford to throw money around. So I may delay buying 3.5, or I may forgo it altogether.

I'm still glad WOTC is producing them, becaues I think it improves the state of the game in general. New people coming into the game will have slightly better-balanced rules, I hope, and I think they're adding in some interesting tweaks to the system.

What bites my butt isn't the idea that some people won't buy 3.5. It's that some people seem to think WOTC is behaving unethically by producing 3.5, because they somehow think that WOTC will force them to buy the books or else play an inferior game. That's an absurd, delusional self-centered, whiny idea the like of which I rarely hear.

Guys. 3.5 is an option. Will your group all switch to 3.5, so that you must switch or else leave the group? So sad, so sad: your group just as easily might have all switched to playing Deadlands, forcing you to switch. But you wouldn't blame the publishers of Deadlands.

And even if your group all switches, you'll probably be able to squeak by with borrowing other folks' books. Several people in my group don't own their own set of the core books; we pass the books around, so that everyone can see them.

Buy them or not. But stop with the ridiculous complaints against WOTC for releasing an improved game.

Daniel

 

[Zappo]

Ok, I can understand (though I don't agree) the compatibility issues. But...

Considering that all the new stuff will be available for free, I find all the complaints about price ridiculous. Maybe upon hearing the first ones, I could think "this guy doesn't know about the SRD", but now that the SRD option has been repeated over and over again, what should I think?

"This guy believes that getting the revised rules for free isn't enough and that he should actually be paid for using them"?

Or "This guy doesn't like getting the revised rules in electronic format because they lack the pretty pictures and wants WotC to send him the new hardcover for free"?

Or maybe "This guy is either stupid, a troll, someone who doesn't read the previous posts before complaining, or just plainly enjoys whining?"

You tell me.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Here here. Some people on these boards act like gaming is some right they have and everything should be handed to them for free.

This is a business and WOTC is here to make money. You make money by giving as many people as possible what they want.

Wizards acts in a responsible manner by bothering to take two years of feedback garnered from millions of players playing the game to its limits for millions of hours, fix the known problems with the existing version of the game and then wait until the time comes to reprint the rulebooks to compile the fixes into one place. (Until now, it's all done by FAQs and errata.)

This reaction--to whine like spoiled brats--to such responsible actions on WotC's part garner is abominable. What ungrateful wretches! They're doing what so many here and elsewhere wanted: to acknowledge that D&D3e has broken elements, and to fix them for the betterment of the game. They're doing the sort of things that users hollared about for years; to bitch about WotC doing what you asked them to do is hypocricy and stupidity in action. You know not what WotC has in store for the game, so you lack the information that you need to make a full and fair assesment of the revisions to the game; it would be wise to reserve your judgement until you do.

 

[Holy Bovine]

So I am feeling a little indignant that the money I spent on the books is going to mean little to none over the next few years until the original 3E comes to accrue a little collectible value.

????? This is one of sillier things I have seen expressed in this thread. You bought 3E as an investment???

I hate to break it to you but you will never see 3E get 'collectable' and have a value anywhere near its cover price as a used product. Mass produced things rarely increase in value due to the sheer numbers of them made. Even the 1st edition AD&D and Basic/Expert D&D books I have sold on eBay have rarely gone for more than the actual US$ cover price. Fotunately I get them used in CAN$ then sell them in US$ so I actually do see a decent profit on each sale thanks to the exchange rate.

But expecting the 3E rule set to increase in value over the years - don't hold your breath