[Rant] is D&D going the way of the CCG?

[Mordane76]

The one saving grace for many folks will be that all of the new rules will be available for free, through the SRD. Thus if people want to keep gaming with their older rulebooks but want some or all of the new rules, they have access to it and there is basically no monetary barrier to "moving up."

True. I don't want to sound like an ingrate (Sorry, Corinth). It's rare for a company to make the effort and listen to its customers so closely, and I really do appreciate that. It's also really nice of them to provide the bulk of the changes as part of the SRD. I just know I want to buy it, and I don't know if I will be able to buy it right away. I'm also starting to run out of shelf space, and three more books might require me to buy a new bookcase... See! The costs are piling up even more! DARN YOU, WIZARDS!

 

[Cazador]

I'm concerned about this too, I know that if someone complains about the revised book the quick answers are: don't buy them or get the SRD and use that.
I'm ok with that so far, I'm not planning to buy the books and as I run a game on Kalamar and I want to buy the new books I'll get the SRD and see what changes I use and what I don't.
But the news about the DR strikes me, I see the reason and I would like to see them when I start playing 3E two years ago.

You see the news about the Revised CC? The book got pushed back so the new layout and the monster will be like those of the new MM, that makes a lot of sense and it's great news to those that plan to switch to 3.5.
Now, I really really hope there's a table somewhere on the revised MM that explain how to change the new DRs to the old ones and I don't mean the old MM cause I already have those, but if I buy the Revised CC (or any new Monster book that comes out after the revision) and I don't want to switch to 3.5.
How I'll know the equivalences of the DR in the new book to use them on 3.0?

In Andy Collins example he mention the Iron Golem that has a DR 50/+3 and that the bigger monsters like the Pit Fiend will have the DR reduced to 15/holysilver, imagine a monster like the Iron Golem and you see the DR as 15/GolemKillerMaterial. How I can imagine the correct DR for 3.0 if I see this monster on a new book?
If the Table with the equivalences for the DR isn't in the new MM, maybe the only hope it's that the rest of the publishers do some kind of Web Enhancement with the DRs for 3.0 I don't think this will happen with all the publishers and also I'm sure that will not be the case with WotC new books.

I know that there's a lot of "If" in my post and my concerns could be nothing if the Table is in the new MM or WotC post that on their website later. But thinking of the posibbility that there's no Table doesn't sound good for me.
Oh also if I switch to 3.5 with the new facing rules I have a lot of counters with wrong sizes now, I stil can use them and manage to put the Pit Fiend counter (5ftx5ft) in the center of four squares in the grid to reflect the new 10ft/10ft instead of the old 5ft/10ft.

Cazador

 

[barsoomcore]

What Eric said. The SRD alone has provided massive benefit to the industry, not just WotC, and as long as they keep it up-to-date (and therefore valuable), they can issue all the revisions they like.

 

[Forrester]

Damn. When I saw the thread topic, I was hoping it would be a rant about how so many of today's D&D players are whiny obsessed rules-lawyers, ever-searching for the Next Unstoppable Combo and truly upset when someone dares question The Official Rules. (Sound like MtG players, anyone?)

(I still remember some twit telling me that I really wasn't playing 3E -- certainly, high-level 3E -- if I nerfed Scry, Commune, and Raise Dead for high-level PCs. WTF?)

But that's not this thread. I'll be patient.

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

What's the problem? As Crothian said, they're improving the game by correcting and improving the things that many have found to need improvement. That's called a comapany that listens to and is responsive to their customers!

As for shelling out $90 for three books every three-five years, well, damn. Take a look around. The other night I took my wife to a nice seafood restaurant. Two dinners of New York Steak and shrimp scampi; $28 each. Two ice teas, and a great cheesecake and ice cream desert to share, came to $74.00 total. The service was excellent, so add in a 20% tip, which is covered by $16.00, for a total of $90.00 for a great dinner out.

Last week, my wife and I went to the movies. Two tickets, $18. Popcorn, $5. Two large drinks, $8. Two candy bars, $5. An inexpensive Greek dinner for $20 a bit before the movie, and you're looking at $56 for the whole evening.

So, when you consider both such evenings of entertainment and food are entirely temporary--they last only that evening, and aren't something you keep like books--the idea of paying $90 for three new books is, well, what's the problem? I mean, try and put these things more in perspective here you know?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[barsoomcore]

(I still remember some twit telling me that I really wasn't playing 3E -- certainly, high-level 3E -- if I nerfed Scry, Commune, and Raise Dead for high-level PCs. WTF?)

But that's not this thread. I'll be patient.

Was that the same thread with the chap who told me I wasn't really playing 3E unless I was playing Forgotten Realms -- and without making a single change or addition to anything found in the Forgotten Realms reference books?

I can be patient, too.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

Yes I can choose what changes to 3.0 I want from the SRD and will likely do that. What they are hurting however is 3rd party publishers. Currently I buy 2x as much from them as I do from WotC. If they start publishing for revised rules I wont use (DR) I will not buy from them any more. By making 3.5 not fully backwards compatable but giving us the rules for free they will likely split the 3E market reducing it for the 3rd parties as well.

 

[KnowTheToe]

Wizards acts in a responsible manner by bothering to take two years of feedback garnered from millions of players playing the game to its limits for millions of hours, fix the known problems with the existing version of the game and then wait until the time comes to reprint the rulebooks to compile the fixes into one place. (Until now, it's all done by FAQs and errata.)

This reaction--to whine like spoiled brats--to such responsible actions on WotC's part garner is abominable. What ungrateful wretches! They're doing what so many here and elsewhere wanted: to acknowledge that D&D3e has broken elements, and to fix them for the betterment of the game. They're doing the sort of things that users hollared about for years; to bitch about WotC doing what you asked them to do is hypocricy and stupidity in action. You know not what WotC has in store for the game, so you lack the information that you need to make a full and fair assesment of the revisions to the game; it would be wise to reserve your judgement until you do.

Right on as usual. Also they are providing the info free. In order for the game to grow it needs to stay in touch with how gamers are using the material and how they want to use the material. Without constant tweeking and rereleasing they face the risk of losing their audience to other companies or boredom and frustration.

I will pobably not buy the books until mine begin to ware or someone is is really broke wants to game. i will give them my copy and then buy a new one. In the mean time, I will probably just continue using the SRD.

 

[Henry]

Nice to be patient, but let's please eschew name calling both towards WotC as well as to those critical of the new Revision.

From my standpoint, they're damned if they do, and damned if they don't. I do have a question of those in this thread who have criticized the way WotC is handling the revision:

What would you do differently, in order to make changes to the game, and release them to the public, without losing money on the project?

The only thing I can possibly think of, myself, is to release the Revision copies at the same intro price as the first set: $20.00 apiece.

HOWEVER, the two mitigating circumstances are that not everyone is planning to buy new books to switch, and the firs time around, the three books were priced as loss leaders anyway, to get them into the Gaming mainstream. Therefore, releasing them at the cheaper price point would result in losing money.

Would you even change the rules at all? That's also a non-issue, because most people hate to see something that they made, that is in their opinion flawed, sitting around staying flawed. That, again is a non-issue.

So, the result is, you wish to improve the rules, making them more consistent and answering to a large call from the fan-base for changes, but how to do it without invalidating 100% compatibility.

ANSWER: You cannot. ANY change, no matter how small, will invalidate the thousands of products for 3E in some small way. Look how many changes occurred to the Star Wars Revised game! It invalidated many stat blocks, just by armor rules alone.

So again, in my eyes, it's damned if you do or don't. But my question remains:

-How would you go about it, in order to tick off the least amount of gamers?

 

[KenM]

My main concern is i think its too soon to do a major revsion. When Ad+D second edtion came out in 1989, was not until 1995 they put out updated books. Can someone post a link on where I can look at this SRD?