Rant on d20

[Coreyartus]

d20 Rant
Hey, I just thought I'd add my two cents worth. My big d20 beef: it hasn't developed the kind of multi-genre variety that GURPS has. I grew up on DND. I love it. I'm familiar with it. I don't relish investing in and learning new RPG systems. But, I want to put my same character into multiple worlds and genres, and I can't do that yet with d20. Most of the various genre experiments with d20 rules are published by different companies with variable quality control, with a myriad of rules variations/alterations. I'm not interested in "forcing" my characters to fit the modifications. If I want a ship of Star Wars characters to crash land in Greyhawk for a while, it's a real challenge. If I want a group of Cthulhu characters to walk through a door and end up in Deadlands, it's a real shift. And the d20 Modern rules haven't even been published yet (and knowing WOTC's way with Errata, I'm not sure purchasing the first printing is a good idea...) to even begin to facilitate anything like that. It's got a long way to go to develop into a competent multi-genre system, and continually shelling out money for variations on DND themes (which is what the vast majority of d20 publishers are doing nowdays) is getting old. The alternatives aren't fleshed out enough, nor connected enough with each other to make me feel really good about thinking the d20 system can really hold it's own outside of the DND theme. Whatchall think?

 

[LostSoul]

Re: For further discussion

"The orc barbarian swings with his axe and manages to hit you in the side. You feel the breath slammed out of you and the beginnings of nasty bruise but fortunately your armor stops it from breaking ribs or slicing through you." into HP damage.

It isn't too hard:

"You're hit for x amount of damage. You're left with 8 hit points left."

It depends on how many hit points the character has and their Con score; it could be 1 out of 2, 3/4, 4/6, 6/8, 6/9, 7/10, 8/11, 8/12, etc.

 

[NemesisPress]

D20 is an awkward system with a number of shortfallings. However, it's become a standard - and that counts for a lot more (and is why I'll be publishing d20 games rather than some other system).

 

[Bastille]

D20 just looks like Windows with benefits and flaws. The success came with the many softwares/modules. Try another system without this choice of universes and scenarios...
I can't stand the flat-foot option.

 

[Psion]

D20 is an awkward system with a number of shortfallings. However, it's become a standard - and that counts for a lot more (and is why I'll be publishing d20 games rather than some other system).

Please don't. I have seen past attempts by companies who don't grok d20 (and if you call it awkward, you don't grok it) who press on despite that, and the results aren't pretty.

 

[Frosty]

The greatest strength of D&D is and has always been it's controversial issues. The controversy makes people remember the game for more than it is. In this debate I sometimes agree with vturlough and sometimes with Psion but I eat it all up. I've been gaming for as long as the rest of you guys and I've been a member and frequent poster here since the very beginning but I'm still not jaded or fed up with the controversy. It's the reason I come back. Sure, sometimes it gets repetitive but every so often someone brings a new gem to the boards which allow me to ponder the game from a new perspective. I love it.

About that class basis for D&D I'd like to share with you that I haven't created a core class character for a long time. I understand the philosophy behind 3ed and I'm familiar with the system and the min/max-options so I can create a character from the PHB by simply picking the things I like. My DM let's me do this because he realises why I do it. I don't do it to make a more powerful set of numbers but a more powerful character. That doesn't mean they are worthless on the grid - they can hold their own - but it means that they are a little different and might surprise you once in awhile. I encourage you to experiment with the rules when creating a character. Remember to add a fail-safe to the character, though. If I invent a custom class for a character I might make the character an outsider for example. Because if the DM feels my creation threatens game-balance he can kill it - and my friends can't raise me. Or I might give the DM a reason in my background to retire me hastily. Yet, he hasn't needed to and I won't argue with him, either.

When it comes to AC and hitpoints I used to agree with vturlough. I thought the idea of abstract health was silly. By playing the game though, to high levels (currently 18), I've learned that the system works and feels realistic. (Except for the parade-example of the falling barabarian, but that is easily solved with some common sense, eh?). At higher levels you lose hitpoints by the handful in melee and it certainly conveys the feeling of having big chunks of flesh being torn from your body. Sometimes and isolated example seems ludicrous but in the heat of the action during the game it all seems plausible and it works. Perhaps the audience would find it cheesy but luckily we don't have one.

My gripe with the game is that it doesn't endcourage role-playing but no one agrees with me so I'll let that slide...

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Please don't. I have seen past attempts by companies who don't grok d20 (and if you call it awkward, you don't grok it) who press on despite that, and the results aren't pretty.

 

[evileeyore]

Consider the possibility of GMing your own campaign, where you would be free to use any ruleset that you liked, and make any tweaks that you desired. Unless, of course, whining, pleading and crying like a little bitch is more your style.

Actually whining, crying and pleading like a little bitch is my style... What's yours?

Really I do run my own games. I run GURPS, and soon I shall attempt BESM...

However I have found I would rather play than run, and my campiagns end up being well run scenarios crudely strung togehter with no real conectivity outside the genre and having the same characters. Not really very satisfying to me.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

D20 is an awkward system with a number of shortfallings. However, it's become a standard - and that counts for a lot more (and is why I'll be publishing d20 games rather than some other system).

I don't think this is a good way to promote your company. As a consumer, if I know a game company dislikes the game they are producing products for, I'm not going to buy any of their stuff. Why? Because it's less likely that such a company will be conversant enough with the rules to produce good products that utilize the game system to its fullest. There are plenty of d20 companies out their who have a genuine liking for the game - and really know the system because of that - who will get my money first. That's just my take on it.

 

[Patrick-S&S]

There are plenty of d20 companies out their who have a genuine liking for the game - and really know the system because of that - who will get my money first. That's just my take on it.

Not just yours I assure you. I feel the same with every game I buy be it computer games or RPGs. When I first saw d20 I was with the other side, thinking it to be the Windows of RPGs, but during the last year or so I have been reading the core books, the Kalamar setting, and a few adventures, and found out that d20 can be really good. There are other systems and world that I like better but for the buck, no one can beat d20 or D&D 3e, at least not when it comes to availability and easy to run. For many that should count for a lot.