D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

[FrogReaver]

To a point.

In a truly linear adventure, designed as one unavoidable room after the next like a string of beads*, there's only ever three exploration choices for the PCs: go ahead, go back, or stay put where they are. In that respect it's the same as a railroad, as the driver of a train on a track also has only those three choices: the train simply can't go anywhere else.

* - some of the old TSR tournament modules are very much designed this way.

I wouldn’t even call that a railroad if that’s what the players agreed to.

They could have started and stopped with just "The events of the story shouldn't be predetermined; the actions of the players' characters have to matter." and it would be great advice.

Adding that preamble about the players being co-authors doesn't help anyone IMO.

At a minimum character backstory is authoring that players do. So I can’t really disagree with the statement, but it could easily be interpreted much more broadly and I would have some issues with some of those more broad interpretations.

 

[FrogReaver]

There's a difference between railroad and linear to me. To me a railroad means the GM overrides everything, no choice ever matters and do on. It's linear on steroids.

Yea, ‘forced linear’.

 

[Maxperson]

There's a difference between railroad and linear to me. To me a railroad means the GM overrides everything, no choice ever matters and do on. It's linear on steroids.

The primary difference, though, is that you can get off a a linear path, but not a railroad.

 

[FrogReaver]

The primary difference, though, is that you can get off a a linear path, but not a railroad.

Sure. But that doesn’t mean that every bit of path has a possible exit, just that the path has possible exits somewhere.

 

[Maxperson]

Sure. But that doesn’t mean that every bit of path has a possible exit, just that the path has possible exits somewhere.

Most of the time it does. Unless you're literally in an area with no quick exit like Undermountain, you will be able to just stop and/or go elsewhere.

 

[FrogReaver]

Most of the time it does. Unless you're literally in an area with no quick exit like Undermountain, you will be able to just stop and/or go elsewhere.

Sure but your definition wasn’t ’most of the time you can get off anywhere’.

 

[Maxperson]

Sure but your definition wasn’t ’most of the time you can get off anywhere’.

Sure it was. My definition was that the major difference was that you can exit every adventure path, but not railroads.. Not being able to get off right away doesn't mean you can't exit the path. You can't get off of any railroad. So your point is not at odds with my original statement.

Edit: Perspective also shifts that. The path is A-Z, as soon as you stop working towards Z you are off of that path, even if you can't exit the physical area like Undermountain right away. Instead of on the path to Z(bottom level of Undermountain), you are looking for the way out and never going back, which exits you from the path, even though you are still stuck inside for a while.

 

[TwoSix]

I wouldn't say that. It depends on the group. Railroads, linear play, and adventures can be fairly popular forms of play. My partner enjoyed playing a fairly linear adventure path that feels fairly "railroady" in terms of being on the rails. They enjoyed it because it felt like the sort of on-the-rail stories found in video games. However, I would potentially buckle under such an adventure unless I went into the adventure well-aware of what I was getting myself into. But simply describing it as what amounts to degenerative play, IMHO, underestimates the popularity of this form of play where the players are blissfully along for the GM-guided ride.

Yep. Like I said in an earlier post, there's nothing wrong with a railroad if the players simply want to relax and enjoy the ride.

 

[FrogReaver]

Yep. Like I said in an earlier post, there's nothing wrong with a railroad if the players simply want to relax and enjoy the ride.

Other than that not being a railroad, sure

 

[FrogReaver]

The primary difference, though, is that you can get off a a linear path, but not a railroad.

Max, you said this as a disagreement to someone else saying a railroad means the dm forces everything. Now your telling me you agree that its only a railroad if the dm forces everything (no paths off) because that’s the only way for there to be no exits.