D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

[Hussar]

Let me get this straight

• 150 peasants (why not 1,000? 10,000?)
• armed with slings at the ready
• all have clear shots at the dragon because it's an open field with no cover
• in formation so as to not be taken out by a breath weapon
• ready to attack the moment the dragon appears
• the dragon presumably then flies within 30 feet of all of them (the short range for a sling)

Is not having the odds heavily stacked against them? Wowzers.

What exactly are you trying to prove? That you can create a hypothetical scenario for suicidal dragons?

What kind of cover do you expect to have while flying? If slings bother you, how about light crossbows. Not exactly a stretch that a town could have a militia of 100 light crossbowmen or archers. "In formation" means, hey guys spread out a bit so it can't breathe on all of you at once. Not exactly Navy Seals here.

Any town of 1000 people or more could easily field this. Not city. Not huge settlement. Any town. This would be the minimum militia I would assume for a town that size. An Adult Green Dragon has a 19 AC. That means that our commoners are hitting on a 17 or better. TWENTY PERCENT per round. With a quarter of those being crits. So, 25d6 damage/round. It's only got 207 HP. That means an adult green dragon dies in about 4 rounds against COMMONERS. Not even soldiers or guards.

This is why I talk about D&D being such an incredibly poor simulation. Dragons are supposed to be these terrifying engines of destruction. Yet, against the weakest units a town could muster, a dragon dies. The mechanics just don't match the narrative.

 

[Hussar]

Big ol' dragon in 1e had 88 hit points and an AC somewhere in the negatives (can't be bothered to look it up right now). Those peasants needed a natural 20 to hit.

A bit cherry picking don't you think? That's the absolute biggest dragon in the game.

An Ancient Black dragon is the end boss in a 4th level AD&D module - the first Dragonlance module. And the party absolutely obliterates it even with the magical item help.

 

[Hussar]

I think the idea is that commoners are equal to minions, which of course they aren't. A commoner has 1d8 hit points whether he's fighting another commoner or a god. That is very much different from a minion ogre of a higher CR than the ogre with 111 hit points being killed by a single commoner with a rock 5% of the time.

Ogres with 1 hit point vs. 111 hit points depending on minion status is very different than a commoner that has a consistent 1d8 hit points no matter what.

But, that's the point. While the mechanics might be different, it plays out exactly the same.

 

[Enrahim]

Aren’t both daggerbeart and the cosimere (so) rpg tackle those?

Daggerheart like 4ed has seperate minion monster types. At least in the SRD I could find no traces of transition between those for a given monster. I have not bought the game proper so is that handled in the books?

I have not looked into the cosmere RPG. So if they actually have tried to tackle this? In that case my interest for getting it rises substantially.

 

[AlViking]

Peasants with longbows can hit the dragon if it can hit them. There's a number and like @EzekielRaiden I forget what it is, but if you have that many or more commoners with longbows, even an ancient dragon will die or be forced to flee. That number is well below the number you would find in a city, and perhaps even a large town.

5e should have used immunity to non-magical weapons more.

If you set up hypothetical situations and have suicidal dragons it doesn't really prove anything. Focused fire from enough enemies is effective but not really a design concern.

Maybe in a bit I'll write up what I think a dragon would do.

 

[AlViking]

Where do you think people live???

Villages are going to be next to fields. It's where their animals graze.

For God's sake, your "wowzers" at something that is so utterly mundane it is NEARLY UNIVERSAL is astounding.

We're done here.

Right. So the 150 peasants (which used to be 50) are all out in a field waiting for the dragon. Why on earth would the dragon fly into position to be targeted by all of them?

I don't disagree with the math of your hypothetical, I don't see why it matters.