D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

[Micah Sweet]

Terrible ruling, I wonder how well that works out at his table?

I'm sure Crawford's Sage Advice and Crawford's table are very different things.

 

[clearstream]

I'm sure Crawford's Sage Advice and Crawford's table are very different things.

Could well be. For instance, I wonder if he ever really played it that only a full hour of combat (enough at the recommended pacing to get to something like 14th level!) would break a long rest?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Could well be. For instance, I wonder if he ever really played it that only a full hour of combat (enough at the recommended pacing to get to something like 14th level!) would break a long rest?

Top design at WotC always read to me as, "don't expect my official answers to have anything to do with my actual play". I don't think it was just Crawford. Perhaps the result of having players constantly asking very specific questions and demanding very specific answers, coupled with the corporate tendency to never admit a mistake if it can at all be helped.

 

[AlViking]

Top design at WotC always read to me as, "don't expect my official answers to have anything to do with my actual play". I don't think it was just Crawford. Perhaps the result of having players constantly asking very specific questions and demanding very specific answers, coupled with the corporate tendency to never admit a mistake if it can at all be helped.

I think it was simple - they gave a strict by the letter ruling because there was no way to satisfy people with whatever answer they gave. I don't see a reason to believe they ever thought the rules were perfect, they openly admit that they make small adjustments for their home games. But if you're asking what the text says, well they'll just tell you the literal interpretation.

 

[Maxperson]

Terrible ruling, I wonder how well that works out at his table?

The 2024 edition seems to have improved on the 2014 game text, but I suspect for that the earlier version so long as one reads seeing something as it if were visible as synonymous with seeing that thing as if it were not invisible, it works out.

It really was a bad ruling. Now that I think about it, I don't think it was initiative that he was talking about. This was the 5e version, so I think the question was about the invisible creature having advantage to attack its target. Since See Invisible didn't say that it took away the advantage, the invisible creature still had it despite being seen. He then justified that as being like the predator, where you saw the creature, but not well enough to stop it from having advantage.

He should have just said, "It says you see the creature as normal and normally seen creatures don't have advantage against you."

 

[Maxperson]

Could well be. For instance, I wonder if he ever really played it that only a full hour of combat (enough at the recommended pacing to get to something like 14th level!) would break a long rest?

Hmm. The problem with that is a full hour of combat with creatures giving enough XP to reach 14th level would indeed still give the party a long rest. A looooooooong rest 6 feet under.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It seems to me that it should be the surprised/unable to see an opponent who rolls initiative with disadvantage. That allows for some aware and some unaware combatants on both sides.

 

[clearstream]

It seems to me that it should be the surprised/unable to see an opponent who rolls initiative with disadvantage. That allows for some aware and some unaware combatants on both sides.

I like that thought, albeit it would often mean you have disadvantage on initiative against other foes who aren't invisible.

Based on how 2024 surprise works, one could say that if a creature invisible to you starts the combat, then you are "caught unawares by the start of combat"... and thus have disadvantage on your initiative roll. If that's right, the invisible foe will also get advantage against you whilst their visible allies will not.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Please name an in-fiction minion, that's supposed to be fragile as glass like minions are mechanically.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I think that's not actually assuming the "in-fiction" part there; its just a typical fictional convention for that kind of fiction, and that opponent is, if anything, presented as dangerous and going down that fast is a bit of a surprise (because most likely it doesn't represent anything in-fiction).