-
NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
[Rant] the RPGA
- Thread starter Zhure
- Start date
Zappo
Explorer
Hmmm... I've played one RPGA game at a con, and it was unremarkable, but I've played much worse ones. There was this game - a tournament game, no less - where in the first encounter we got ambushed by twice our number enemies of twice our level (5th vs. 10th, this was OD&D). Two of us got killed, the rest fled. Most of us survivors got imprisoned later by a traitorous governor. I attempted some illusions to help our escape but all the enemies simply behaved as if the illusions weren't there. I died later; I was invisible and wanted to end the spell, but the DM said that I could only end it by attacking someone. I was in the middle of a big row, so I just rolled my eyes and said that I would hit a random rioter with a punch. As luck would have it, the guy was armed and a high level fighter 
, who assumed that getting punched during a riot was a capital offense and promptly eviscerated me.
Then there was the Call of Cthulhu game where a player insisted for bringing his own character - seeing that he had little weapons, scarse combat skills, and good detective skills, and when I told him "No guns, I see" he answered "Are they of any use?", the DM assumed that he was a good CoC player. Big mistake. During a formal dinner, when another players' character made a little joke about him having a higher EDU than his, this guy tells the DM: "I pull out my taser under the table and shock him"... it went fairly downhill from there.
, who assumed that getting punched during a riot was a capital offense and promptly eviscerated me.Then there was the Call of Cthulhu game where a player insisted for bringing his own character - seeing that he had little weapons, scarse combat skills, and good detective skills, and when I told him "No guns, I see" he answered "Are they of any use?", the DM assumed that he was a good CoC player. Big mistake. During a formal dinner, when another players' character made a little joke about him having a higher EDU than his, this guy tells the DM: "I pull out my taser under the table and shock him"... it went fairly downhill from there.
Bagpuss
Legend
Skwave said:
So getting the module 5 minutes before the game is no excuse?
I've lost count of the number of convention games I turned up to intending to be a player and ended up GMing because they have a ratio of about 20 to 1, players to GM's. In the past I only agreed to GM a game that I know I can adlib such a CoC or Feng Shui, but I'm sure other people have agreed to run D&D for folks and had to try and stick close to the module.
Eventually I've given up playing at conventions, now if I go I just GM, although sometimes its still at last minute since I go to the sign up place and ask what they are short of.
Now there should be no excuse for sloppy module writing for convention games, but again I'm sure they have had to write modules in a couple of days (perhaps hours) when things haven't turned up 'as promised'.
You always get way more people wanting to play than GM at conventions, so you are always likely to get people stepping in to help at short notice, be it to GM or even write a module.
Sometimes its that or nothing... (perhaps sometimes nothing would get less complaints).
der_kluge
Adventurer
Ugh, I hate the RPGA. The whole premise is just flawed. The idea behind "classics" is fairly ok, but weak in execution. Why not just have GMs run their own games, rather than abide by the restrictions that the RPGA places upon them? And the Living games are made up of 95% powergamers that only play for points, and certs. What's the point?
Game for the fun of it, not the trophies.
Game for the fun of it, not the trophies.
buzzard
First Post
die_kluge said:
If you are slamming Living City, I can probably buy the claims. However most of the rest of the Living campaigns do not deserve this slander. I am familiar with Living Greyhawk, Living Jungle, and Living Death. The last was the farthest thing from powergaming which I've ever experienced 9so much so that I didn't play it again). Living Jungle is pure roleplaying and hamming up being a neanderthal. As or LG, while I could imagine someone trying to powergame in it, a 28 point buy, basically no certs, and restrictive policies for non core options rather belie your claims. Here in County of Urnst, there are some exceptional role players.
I have been to a fair number of cons. I have not experienced very many bad DMs. I have, however, experienced a few bad adventures, but I've managed to have fun in most cases (exceptions generally being when I'm stuck at a table with Dad and his two kids who are marginally interested at best, and it's a training/babysitting session rather than a gaming session).
buzzard
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
I actually got started going to cons playing RPGA games (Living Greyhawk in particular). And I have to say I enjoyed most of them. Maybe this was partially my location (the San Francisco bay area has a lot of good LG judges and the RPGA con coordinators know who they are and try to have them judge instead of mediocre judges if it's possible.) Sure one or two of the modules weren't very good (I'd go so far as to say one of the modules was irredemably bad but that was Living Arcanis not Living Greyhawk). Most of them, however, were average or better.
I played one non RPGA con game and it was alright as well--I had quite a bit of fun. (Unfortunately we ran out of time toward the end). Of course, I knew the DM (having judged an LG event for him the previous night) and probably wouldn't have tried it without knowing anything about either the DM or the players.
Anyway, it seems to me that cons (RPGA or otherwise) have advantages and disadvantages over home games. The advantage is that you get to meet new people and game with them. The disadvantage is that some of the people are people you'd rather not have met. (Apparently that was the case with Wizardru's Brendigund's Blood experience).
I played one non RPGA con game and it was alright as well--I had quite a bit of fun. (Unfortunately we ran out of time toward the end). Of course, I knew the DM (having judged an LG event for him the previous night) and probably wouldn't have tried it without knowing anything about either the DM or the players.
Anyway, it seems to me that cons (RPGA or otherwise) have advantages and disadvantages over home games. The advantage is that you get to meet new people and game with them. The disadvantage is that some of the people are people you'd rather not have met. (Apparently that was the case with Wizardru's Brendigund's Blood experience).
I've had a share of horror stories both within the RPGA and outside of it.
I've been in extremely bad RPGA Classic modules, and terrible RPGA Living Greyhawk / Living City modules. On the other hand, I've been in some real gems. My experience with other games is exactly the same.
I've played in an LG scenario where a widget we never heard anything about beforehand caused a will save no one could make without a nat-20. Failure resulted in an insane need to kill the person with the widget and take it for yourself.
I've played in a Shadowrun Classic scenario where the Street Samurai had no Cyberware listed, despite his Essence of 0.1, and all the other characters had errors of similar magnitude. Another Classic allowed the PCs to play second fiddle to NPCs; we couldn't tie our shoes without help.
But, then, I've played an LG scenario where the players had so much fun, we decided to extend the (role-play intensive) scenario for 5 more hours rather than go eat or go to our next slot. I've been in a different group that was so much fun that I can still remember most of the characters' names today.
I've played a pair of Classic events that catered to my tastes in gaming almost exactly. Where I actually role-played better than I had realized I could manage. "Binding Arbitration" was so much fun that I have since run it and re-played it more than a couple times.
Does it surprise anyone that I've had similarly good and bad experiences outside the RPGA? A non-comedy Sci-Fi game in which the characters were making rolls for sexual performance and to determine if they caught an STD? A highlander game in which the PCs were the poor mortals caught in the clash of the uber-statted immortal NPCs, Connor and Kurgan? Demo games that so toroughly sold me on the product that I bought copies for everyone in my game group? Games so well done that I look for the names of the GM on the schedule of every convention I go to?
The players are a mixed bunch, too. I won't belabor this with further examples.
So here's my point: the games and the gamers vary from place to place and group to group. If the RPGAers at your local con are consistently people you don't want to play with, cool. I just wanted to make you aware that the brush you were using was a little too wide. And the experience from a single con is probably not enough to judge everyone in the RPGA... or even everyone who ever DMs for that Con.
By all means, play the odds. If you think it likely that non-RPGA games are more likely to be fun for you, go for it. If you miss out on a good DM or two, it's probably worth it given how many you might otherwise never meet because you were asleep at someone else's table.
Personally, I go out of my way to play with the good gamers, because they're easier to remember than the bad ones. I take recommendations from people I trust, and I've learned to ask questions about the module ahead of time (especially since LG started using modules expressly intended to kill of characters).
... bah, I seem to have lost my point somewhere. Or maybe I made it already, and didn't know when to shut up. Anyway, if you want recommendations for who to play with, there are a fair number of good people on this very board.
Dang. Now I'm going to have to start thinking about how to write a web app for player & DM recommendations. Yeah, like I needed more work...
. . . . . . . -- Eric
PS -- For the record, I have never run a bad game or failed to roleplay well, and I'm the best person to employ in my entire field. Honest.
I've been in extremely bad RPGA Classic modules, and terrible RPGA Living Greyhawk / Living City modules. On the other hand, I've been in some real gems. My experience with other games is exactly the same.
I've played in an LG scenario where a widget we never heard anything about beforehand caused a will save no one could make without a nat-20. Failure resulted in an insane need to kill the person with the widget and take it for yourself.
I've played in a Shadowrun Classic scenario where the Street Samurai had no Cyberware listed, despite his Essence of 0.1, and all the other characters had errors of similar magnitude. Another Classic allowed the PCs to play second fiddle to NPCs; we couldn't tie our shoes without help.
But, then, I've played an LG scenario where the players had so much fun, we decided to extend the (role-play intensive) scenario for 5 more hours rather than go eat or go to our next slot. I've been in a different group that was so much fun that I can still remember most of the characters' names today.
I've played a pair of Classic events that catered to my tastes in gaming almost exactly. Where I actually role-played better than I had realized I could manage. "Binding Arbitration" was so much fun that I have since run it and re-played it more than a couple times.
Does it surprise anyone that I've had similarly good and bad experiences outside the RPGA? A non-comedy Sci-Fi game in which the characters were making rolls for sexual performance and to determine if they caught an STD? A highlander game in which the PCs were the poor mortals caught in the clash of the uber-statted immortal NPCs, Connor and Kurgan? Demo games that so toroughly sold me on the product that I bought copies for everyone in my game group? Games so well done that I look for the names of the GM on the schedule of every convention I go to?
The players are a mixed bunch, too. I won't belabor this with further examples.
So here's my point: the games and the gamers vary from place to place and group to group. If the RPGAers at your local con are consistently people you don't want to play with, cool. I just wanted to make you aware that the brush you were using was a little too wide. And the experience from a single con is probably not enough to judge everyone in the RPGA... or even everyone who ever DMs for that Con.
By all means, play the odds. If you think it likely that non-RPGA games are more likely to be fun for you, go for it. If you miss out on a good DM or two, it's probably worth it given how many you might otherwise never meet because you were asleep at someone else's table.
Personally, I go out of my way to play with the good gamers, because they're easier to remember than the bad ones. I take recommendations from people I trust, and I've learned to ask questions about the module ahead of time (especially since LG started using modules expressly intended to kill of characters).
... bah, I seem to have lost my point somewhere. Or maybe I made it already, and didn't know when to shut up. Anyway, if you want recommendations for who to play with, there are a fair number of good people on this very board.
Dang. Now I'm going to have to start thinking about how to write a web app for player & DM recommendations. Yeah, like I needed more work...
. . . . . . . -- Eric
PS -- For the record, I have never run a bad game or failed to roleplay well, and I'm the best person to employ in my entire field. Honest.
Only played Pale Harvest (at first level) from the RPGA, but it was b-o-r-i-n-g. A railroad of a handful of specific encounters. Zzz. **But** I've had just as bad and even worse con games. I'm seconding the idea of noting which GMs are good and which are bad.
No one's mentioned this, but as a GM who has a few hundred adventures, I only would like to run a handful of them. I'm under the impression that a GM has to run a module from a limited selection, so I'm guessing that if the GM doesn't really like the module, it'll show in play.
It **is** tough to run a good roleplaying game. And it's no fun being trapped four hours being polite in a boring game. I'm surprised game volunteers aren't all running standalone card games by now.
Still, if a four-hour version of X2: Chateau D'Amberville shows up on the RPGA module list, I'm playing!
Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^
No one's mentioned this, but as a GM who has a few hundred adventures, I only would like to run a handful of them. I'm under the impression that a GM has to run a module from a limited selection, so I'm guessing that if the GM doesn't really like the module, it'll show in play.
It **is** tough to run a good roleplaying game. And it's no fun being trapped four hours being polite in a boring game. I'm surprised game volunteers aren't all running standalone card games by now.
Still, if a four-hour version of X2: Chateau D'Amberville shows up on the RPGA module list, I'm playing!
Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^
Bagpuss
Legend
Writing a module that will run for 4 hours, no more no less is not straight forward.
Lets be honest a four hour slot really consist of about 30 minutes setup and reading characters getting everyone to settle down, then ideally if the GM wants to have any sort of 'covention life' (get to the trade stands, eat, sleep, etc) then he'll want to finish about 30 to 15 minutes before the end to get the score sheets and stuff out the way.
So really your looking at a 3 hour adventure, that has to introduce the plot, carry on the story and get to the end, has to be written for 6 characters (although still work if perhaps two are missing).
I think some of you are expecting miracles if you expect every adventure written to those specifications and a DM running a game against a clock isn't going to rail-road on occasions, have a liner plot or not have the most interesting, imaginative and detailed plot.
You are always going to get some duff ones. Although in my experiences I've found some real gems as well. I'll never forget playing in a party Gully Dwarves stuck on a spell-jammer ship. Or the first Feng Shui adventure I ever GM'ed at 5 minutes notice and was still an aboslute blast for all involved. Or the Call of Cthulhu senario were I massacred a group of college students, dropping one through the sky-light onto the pool table, slamming my fist down on the gaming table and making everyone jump.
Convention gaming has the best and the worst like anything.
Lets be honest a four hour slot really consist of about 30 minutes setup and reading characters getting everyone to settle down, then ideally if the GM wants to have any sort of 'covention life' (get to the trade stands, eat, sleep, etc) then he'll want to finish about 30 to 15 minutes before the end to get the score sheets and stuff out the way.
So really your looking at a 3 hour adventure, that has to introduce the plot, carry on the story and get to the end, has to be written for 6 characters (although still work if perhaps two are missing).
I think some of you are expecting miracles if you expect every adventure written to those specifications and a DM running a game against a clock isn't going to rail-road on occasions, have a liner plot or not have the most interesting, imaginative and detailed plot.
You are always going to get some duff ones. Although in my experiences I've found some real gems as well. I'll never forget playing in a party Gully Dwarves stuck on a spell-jammer ship. Or the first Feng Shui adventure I ever GM'ed at 5 minutes notice and was still an aboslute blast for all involved. Or the Call of Cthulhu senario were I massacred a group of college students, dropping one through the sky-light onto the pool table, slamming my fist down on the gaming table and making everyone jump.
Convention gaming has the best and the worst like anything.
Similar Threads
