Rappan Athuk: Reloaded SOLD OUT by wide margin!!

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I also find it ironic that you are complaining about White Wolf and Necromancer's product release record and yet you ordered books through Amazon who some regard as being just as much, if not more unreliable.

Not for me they're not. In fact, they've been much more reliablefor me than WW/NG has ever been. People in glass houses and all that...

That being said, I wasn't aware that it had been announced ordering from Amazon was risky.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

The people you should complain to are at Amazon. Amazon has had the wrong information and pricing posted for a long time.

For me, it's never been about the pricing (despite Olaf's insinuations). I would have paid $75 as much as $25. But if store A is selling for one-third the price of store B, sorry, but Business 101 says to buy from the cheaper seller. I don't care to be the first in line and I don't mind waiting a few months extra. And I'm certainly not going to GENCON to buy it.

My issue was that it appeared WW/NG was pulling its product from Amazon simply b/c it didn't like the price Amazon was charging and felt it could get more from selling on its own website. If Amazon knew months ago that it wouldn't be received product, then that's Amazon's fault. But up until today, I never saw anything to indicate Amazon wouldn't be getting any product.

 

[green slime]

Same thing happens to me when I order stuff from Europe/Africa. Its the price we pay when we want a product only available over seas. Now if laws could be the same as they are for Hong Kong and Thailand, we'd save money.

Oh I agree on that score, Treebore, and I'm really happy things are going well with this product for you. Its just been kind of hard with all this knowing about good product on your side of the pond, and not being able to lay my hands on it!

For me, Necromancer games stuff has always been great, when I've been able to latch onto it and simultaneously found myself holding onto some money.

I don't think it really is a matter of changing laws so much as changing -for-tat retalition on goods duties between US and EU. Some politicians need a good swift boot to the posterior.

 

[PatrickLawinger]

For me, it's never been about the pricing (despite Olaf's insinuations). I would have paid $75 as much as $25. But if store A is selling for one-third the price of store B, sorry, but Business 101 says to buy from the cheaper seller. I don't care to be the first in line and I don't mind waiting a few months extra. And I'm certainly not going to GENCON to buy it.

My issue was that it appeared WW/NG was pulling its product from Amazon simply b/c it didn't like the price Amazon was charging and felt it could get more from selling on its own website. If Amazon knew months ago that it wouldn't be received product, then that's Amazon's fault. But up until today, I never saw anything to indicate Amazon wouldn't be getting any product.

For the last time folks, we didn't "pull product from Amazon." I can't stress this enough. The whole idea that we would deliberately not sell to someone is, frankly, idiotic. If Amazon ordered them before Alliance they would have gotten the order. They didn't. It is that simple. We charge Amazon the same amount we charge Alliance, we don't care which one buys it. We do happen to know that Amazon orders at the last minute. Amazon is huge, 3rd party rpg products have miniscule sales by Amazon standards. Amazon simply doesn't care. They expect that, due to their size, companies will simply sell books to them no matter who pre-ordered before them. We won't do that and most of the small RPG companies won't, we sell in the order books were ordered. Alliance was first and bought pretty much everything we had left, plain and simple.

Again, we did not "pull product from Amazon" and saying so is complete BS. Despite what Amazon might say on their website, your pre-order(s) did NOT translate into a pre-order from Amazon. Amazon did NOT order RAR, at least not before Alliance stepped up and claimed everything we had sans direct pre-orders on the WW website. Amazon CAN get RAR through Alliance if they want to. I can pretty much guarantee that if they do, they will NOT want to honor the price they had up. I am guessing they simply won't get it in. Believe me, they can, if they want to.

Patrick

 

[JoeBlank]

Congrats to the Necro team!

And for future reference, so no one who reads this thread can say they never heard it before:

Ordering ANYTHING from Amazon when the availability says anything other than "in stock" is risky.

I love Amazon, for the prices and the convenience. But I never pre-order from them, and so I never have any problems.

 

[Arnwyn]

I just re-read your posts over in the Necromancer General forums in the thread announcing RA as a 1,000 box print run. You may want to do the same before posting something with this kind of attitude.

You've known the risks with RA:R for months, and how Bill, because of you and your posts, tried to get WW to reduce shipping to Canada.

Nice loyalty and appreciation there, Arnwyn.

My attitude? How about you just back right off, Treebore.

He did look into reducing shipping to a reasonable/normal price to Canada (and I see you've mentioned it twice in this thread already) - but of course, since you seem to be as well informed as I am, I'm sure you know that he didn't. If he had gotten the price to something more reasonable (as Malhavoc did with Ptolus), I'd have been all over that pre-order like a dirty shirt. But they didn't.

"Knowing the risks" ("risks" for a product?) does me no good when the best I can reasonably do is sit with my fingers crossed and hope that my LGS gets me the product I asked for.

Your "loyalty" comment is, of course, irrelevant. I have no more "loyalty" to Necro as I do WotC, Sony, or Procter & Gamble. I'm speaking wholly as a consumer.

It is pretty easy to make comments from the gallery when you don't know what goes into making the decisions. The various parts of the decision making process indicated a print run of 1,000 copies for a $75 boxed set of something that includes a revision of previous printed books was the correct number.

Indeed it is. Of course, speaking as a consumer, I don't give two s about your process. I have absolutely no doubt in the world that the decision you made is the best for Necro Games. You're still in the industry while focusing on adventures, so you guys must know what you're doing.

But again, I don't care if the decision is good for you. (Why would I? That's your concern, not mine.) As a consumer, I care if the decision is good for me. And hearing all this "We warned you guys! We warned you guys!" over the last little while isn't all that heartening.

In any case, I have every intention of (happily!) taking back what I said as soon as my LGS puts that product into my hands. We'll see if that occurs.

 

[KB9JMQ]

Well it's great for the industry that they sold out.
It's crap on a stick (I love that saying btw Eric) for me cause I was still trying to save up to get it somewhere and it looks like it will be very hard to find.

Maybe someday I can get a used copy off of eBay.

 

[Ghostwind]

Congratulations are certainly in order for Necromancer. Selling 1000 copies of any book, let alone a $75 box set is a milestone when your name is not Wizards of the Coast.

Here's a bit of a reality check for everyone who is upset that Necromancer only printed 1000 copies and is now officially sold out. The average 3rd party gaming company gets preorders from distributors that typically total less than 400 copies with the bulk of that coming from Alliance. Restock orders? Ha! Alliance and other distributors rarely place a restock of one-third of their original order and even less on second and third orders (if there are any). So for Necromancer to only print 1000 copies, I say it was a very good decision and still one heck of a risk considering the costs involved. They are one of the few companies who are still capable of publishing consistently despite the low sales that plague the industry.

Patrick has already said that stores who preordered through Alliance (and probably ACD to an extent) will get copies. If you really want a copy, either preorder now through FRP Games or gotoyour local gaming store and place a preorder with them (it helps if you give them at least some money down- stores are more likely to remember to order then).

Amazon has a notorious record of listing anything they can find and trying to presell it. When they can't get it, they will sometimes contact the customer and say so. Usually, however, they just let the order stay open until the customer cancels it or until a set amount of time has elapsed where it automatically gets purged from the system. Amazon has great deals, but to rely upon them for preorders is risky at the least.

 

[freebfrost]

More and more I'm seeing this attitude on these boards - that the consumer is basically getting screwed by companies because the consumer can't get their product at the price they want, at the specific shop they want, exactly when they want it. Gaming products are not necessities - they are luxury items. As such, they can cater to the consumers who are willing to go the extra mile for their products.

I see people are upset that they can't get this product via mail from Amazon all nicely wrapped for 1/3 the retail price. And when they can't, then XYZ has "lost a customer."

So in this example, Necromancer has lost some customers. Guess what, they've still sold out their print run. Those of us willing to jump through some hoops are the consumers that they want to cater to.

You want a Ferrari? Get on their list and pay a lot of money.

You want a limited-edition boxed set from Necromancer? Get on their list (they told you to preorder though White Wolf) and pay a lot of money.

Otherwise, go out and buy yourself a shiny new Mustang. They're good cars too, but they are not Ferraris. Same thing with RA:R.

 

[johnsemlak]

So is there any chance of a reprint? What's the plan for a PDF release?