Rat Swarm Ongoing Damage vs. Fey Step

[borkweb]

So the other night I pitted my PCs against a rat encounter that involved a couple of Rat Swarms. The primary attack of the swarm is called "Swarm of Teeth" and if the hit is successful, it incurs an ongoing damage of 3.

My pre-question question is this:

What causes the ongoing 3 damage? I explained a successful hit as a large number of rats crawling near and onto the PC, biting, clawing, etc. I explained the ongoing damage as some remainder of the rats from the swarm remaining attached and biting into the PC...the save to end the ongoing damage was the PC finally shaking the rats off.

Was I correct in my description?

My actual question is this:

Assume I was correct in my assessment above with regards to a couple of rats remaining attached/on the person continually biting until a save is rolled. If one of the PCs is an Eladrin and has the 3 ongoing Swarm of Teeth damage, if the Eladrin Fey Steps, do the rats drop off (thus ending the ongoing damage) or do they count as items the PC is 'carrying' and go with him (thus maintaining the ongoing damage)?

Thoughts?

 

[Meeble]

I believe that your description of how the ongoing damage works is perfectly fine. You could alternately say that the damage is caused by a large number of bleeding bite marks left by the swarms attacks, by festering illness-ridden wounds, or a number of other options.

This is an unfortunate situation where the player is trying to use your description of the attack to get a benefit from one of his/her powers that is not supported by the rules. Regardless of how you choose to describe the attack, the attack deals ongoing damage on a hit (save ends.) Fey Step cannot mitigate this damage, nor can any other power that does not specifically prevent or negate damage.

So to sum up, there is no "correct" way to describe how the damage is dealt... that is up to each individual DM and can change from round to round depending on the situation. You were correct however in maintaining that the Eladrin PC must still make a save to avoid further ongoing damage after fey-stepping.

 

[Meeble]

To further muddy the waters however, I would probably bend the rules a bit to allow a player in that situation a one-time-only immediate saving throw while using Fey Step in this way just for having a good idea. I would make it clear that it would be one time only, however, so that it would not be abused. =)

That is just a bone I would throw the player however that is not really supported by the rules. Going strictly by the book, teleporting would not allow you to avoid the ongoing damage of a Swarm of Teeth hit.

 

[DracoSuave]

You can still make it work with the given description.

Some of those rats go with him OMNOMNOM.

 

[Nytmare]

The Rules as Written: The damage just keeps on comin

The Rules as I'd Bend Them: The clever player gets a +2 to their next saving throw if they want to throw an Action Point into the mix.

 

[interwyrm]

I'd just let the player do it. It's a *very* specific situation. He can only fey step once per encounter, you probably will not use rat swarms again for a while, and the conditions do not apply to any other monsters.

It's a bit of creative thinking, and should be rewarded (in my opinion without action point expenditure).

 

[keterys]

Would your answers be any different if it was a warlock using the at-will teleport 1 square warlock utility?

 

[Nytmare]

Would your answers be any different if it was a warlock using the at-will teleport 1 square warlock utility?

Not mine!

 

[interwyrm]

Would your answers be any different if it was a warlock using the at-will teleport 1 square warlock utility?

I'd let the player do it, and then on next ongoing damage attack describe it as cuts from the bites.

I'd be tempted to just let them do it though, and have the swarm focus on the other players.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think "stunt time". Normally, the rats would come with, but if he makes an hard Arcana or check, the rats come off. If he fails the check, the rats stay and he doesn't manage to teleport this round. (So he would have "wasted" a move action. That sounds like a fair penalty, and he can try again next round.)

By RAW, a Heal check can be used to give someone another save, IIRC. That would require a standard action, so it is pretty "expensive". But this approach only works in a far more limited situations and requires a special power, so I think a better benefit is okay. There should be some reward to a players creativity.