Rate Class Balance

Oh I almost forgot - one of my fav monks had the Sparring Dummy of the Master from A&E. That pretty much makes the melee enemy worthless.

The main difference I see with 3.0 - 3.5 monks is they got robbed of most of their blinding speed. Oh well LOL

Does anyone have a 3.0 PH handy? Did they always get rogue BABs?
 
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EDIT:Yes, in 3.0 they always had rogue BAB, though it was a modified form. At level 6, they'd still have a +4 BAB, but they'd also get a free extra attack, like a fighter. However, they're chances to hit opponents was still lower, because the 3.0 Flurry of Blows system was quite poor.

In 3.0, flurry of blows never improved, always giving you -2 to hit. So, while you did get five-to-six attacks, the to-hit bonuses were not nearly as good as they are in 3.5. In 3.5, you only get 5 attacks with flurry of blows, or 3 rogue bab attacks if you don't use it. But the 5 attacks are much better than the 5-6 from 3.0. We're talking:

3.0
15/12/9/6/3 or 13/13/9/6/3/0 - of which probably the last 3 attacks are of little use.

3.5
15/10/5 or 15/15/15/10/5 - far more reliable attacks there.


Still, the situation you are describing is primarily an unprepared wizard versus a monk.

I will concede this one point... at high levels, a monk is a very crafty class that, against an unprepared or unsuspecting character, can wreak havoc. However, against any prepared wizard or other primary caster class worth its own salt... the monk is not that uber at all.

Also, my fireballs example doesn't work on monks... but is quite potent against fighters, or low level rangers, and paladins. My point was that while the tricks you list are potent, I think you're severely over-estimating them. Also, there are dozens of "tricks" that many classes, especially spell-casters, can perform.

Monks aren't the only ones that have Dim-Door... and while it's a crafty ability for monks... wizards, sorcs, and the like all can do it, usually further and more often too.

Also, consider that Stunning Fist is one of those feats that has a pretty weak power progression. While the DC goes up, it doesn't quite keep up with the high Fort saves of the other fightinng classes. Sure, you're probably still in the 40-30% range, but it's not something that you can completely rely on. It works great against caster-classes though, admitedly.

I am totally unaware of what that Dummy thing does, though I"ve heard of it. Sound interesting

My argument: Using Core Classes - monk is still pretty lackluster. Good on paper, mediocre in practice if a person takes the time to exploit its weaknesses. If you don't try to stand toe-to-toe with its speed, and instead slam it hard... it'll go down.
 
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The Sparring Dummy is one of those things your character has to have some down time to use - I think it was 1 month IIRC. It allows the monk to take a 10 ft. step where normally they could make a 5 ft. step. Hence melee-killer - Flurry, 10 ft. step back.

I was referring to the stunning fist for the wizards/sorcerors - those with low fort saves. Even then, though, a high level monk has so many stunning attacks per day sooner or later a fighter will fail.
 

One thing I think people don't realize is that a monk doesn't have a lot of options as far as buying magical items/equipment. No armor, and rather pointless in most cases to buy weaponry. So what does he have to spend his money on? Bracers for one, something that boosts Wis, and of course the Rings of Protection and Amulet of Nat. Armor. It's simple to get a monk having a higher AC than a fighter of equivalent level.
 

Monks

When discussing the power of monks, it is really important agree on statistics. If we are talking 23 point point buy, Monks are, IMO, the weakest class. But at 36+ Monks do quite well in my experiance and then bards take the "weakest link" title.

Also, if you are not doing the "magic shoppe" thing, monks tend to suffer. Their magic item needs are a bit specialized and may not just "show up" in the treasure trove.

In other words, I think Monk power is greatly impacted by the game world, probably more so than any other class in the PHB. (Warlock and Psions are probably even more impacted because the "number of encounters per day" differences has a huge impact on them. I'm sure there are other non PHB classes that have similar issues)
 

I agree Brehobit - usually games the DMs around me run use 32 point systems. Also, usually if we go to a big enough town in-game, we can find most anything to buy. Then you can always find a monastery, and they may have items monks prefer.
 

@brehobit: That goes for all spellcasters in general... the more encounters per day, the weaker they are (and the stronger Fighters and Warlocks get).

Bye
Thanee
 

Lasher Dragon said:
One thing I think people don't realize is that a monk doesn't have a lot of options as far as buying magical items/equipment. No armor, and rather pointless in most cases to buy weaponry. So what does he have to spend his money on? Bracers for one, something that boosts Wis, and of course the Rings of Protection and Amulet of Nat. Armor. It's simple to get a monk having a higher AC than a fighter of equivalent level.

The odd thing about the Monk is that MAD really hurts them at low to middling levels with moderate to low stat generation methods. At the higher levels and/or generous point buys for stats, MAD actually becomes an advantage.
 



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