Rate Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (spoilers)

[Pielorinho]

Ah, so Snape was basically a Malfoy or did he have some reason for trying to get them in trouble beyond being a stuck up jerk?

This is a spoiler for the fifth book, so I AM gonna use spoiler tags:

Spoiler

It gets complicated. Snape is something of a wizard purist who can't stand mudbloods, and he was this way even when he was a student. He was also an unpopular prat. James and gang pick on him mercilessly, at one point stripping him and hanging him upside down in front of a girl he has a crush on, if I recall correctly; they really behave in a horrifying fashion toward him.

Basically, Snape is a mean little nerd, and James & gang are mean jocks, and the jocks utterly humiliate the nerd. Snape has never forgiven James for that, and sees a lot of James in Harry

It's been awhile sense I read the fifth book, so I may have gotten some of the details wrong, but I think that's basically how it went down. (And if you want to respond to this and correct me, I'd appreciate it--just make sure you use spoiler tags, too! )

Daniel

 

[Laurel]

Waited to see the movie last night, but I enjoyed it and turned out very happy I did not re-read the book right before hand. That way little things could catch me off guard, and I was not comparing every little quote or action to the book.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

This is a spoiler for the fifth book, so I AM gonna use spoiler tags:

Spoiler

It gets complicated. Snape is something of a wizard purist who can't stand mudbloods, and he was this way even when he was a student. He was also an unpopular prat. James and gang pick on him mercilessly, at one point stripping him and hanging him upside down in front of a girl he has a crush on, if I recall correctly; they really behave in a horrifying fashion toward him.

Basically, Snape is a mean little nerd, and James & gang are mean jocks, and the jocks utterly humiliate the nerd. Snape has never forgiven James for that, and sees a lot of James in Harry

It's been awhile sense I read the fifth book, so I may have gotten some of the details wrong, but I think that's basically how it went down. (And if you want to respond to this and correct me, I'd appreciate it--just make sure you use spoiler tags, too! )

Daniel

Ok, now we are talking about my favorite HP book so here is my opinion, you are pretty muc correct but

Spoiler

it's not just Snape that Potter & crew torment. Potter would hex people just for fun while walking down the hall. And in the scene that where Potter hangs Snape upside down, Black and Potter see Snape walking across the lawn after O.W.L. exams and they bushwack him for the hell of it. I don't think there was a girl he had a crush on, they do it in front of Lily Potter who tells James Potter what a prat he is for being a stuck up and arrogant jerk. Potter doesn't care and says he'll let him down if she will go out with him. And hell they don't just hang him, they hit him with multiple curses. It's shown what a show off Potter is and he isn't a saint by any means.

Snape from that book comes from an abusive home where his father apparently beat his mother in front of him as a child. And Snape seems to have slightly shabby clothes as well which makes me think he didn't have a lot of money in the family even if they were pure bloods, kind of like the Weasleys. He was unpopular with greasy hair and the "jocks" picked on him a lot. He was a jerk though, so I'm sure he brought some of his on himself. He still tells Lilly as she is trying to help him that he doesn't need any mudblood help. After Potter discovers all this about Snape he really gets on his bad side, as if it's possible for Snape to hate Potter even more!

. I am eagerly awaiting more background on Snape in the sixth book. He's an ass but I really like him for some reason. I think he's going to suprise people by the end of the series. I kind of have the same feeling about Draco Malfoy but to a lesser degree, he may be just as bad as his father. Evil to the core.

 

[stevelabny]

Tell you what, you go ahead and think I'm hypocritical, and I'll sit over here chuckling and being utterly amused that you think Professor Lupin is as entrenched in the public consciousness as Darth Vader and Gandalf.

As pointed out, to anyone under 15, (20?) They know more about Harry Potter than they do Vader. or Gandalf before they saw the LOTR movies.

And anyway, we werent talking about the public consciousness. we were talking about the EN WORLD consciousness. with is skewed much more to the geek side I think we agree. For example, its safe to assume everyone on ENWORLD knows the meaning of the word THAC0. Try that on the general consciousness.

 

[Pielorinho]

Steve, and everyone else, can we let the spoiler question drop?

Flexor, thanks for the correction; I couldn't quite remember whether

Spoiler

Snape had a crush on Olivia. I sorta got the impression that he did, only didn't want to admit it, but I can't remember why I got that impression.

Definitely the blurring of good guy/bad guy lines in book 5 makes it my favorite book, too.

Daniel

 

[MaxKaladin]

Ok, now we are talking about my favorite HP book so here is my opinion, you are pretty muc correct but

Spoiler

it's not just Snape that Potter & crew torment. Potter would hex people just for fun while walking down the hall. And in the scene that where Potter hangs Snape upside down, Black and Potter see Snape walking across the lawn after O.W.L. exams and they bushwack him for the hell of it. I don't think there was a girl he had a crush on, they do it in front of Lily Potter who tells James Potter what a prat he is for being a stuck up and arrogant jerk. Potter doesn't care and says he'll let him down if she will go out with him. And hell they don't just hang him, they hit him with multiple curses. It's shown what a show off Potter is and he isn't a saint by any means.

Snape from that book comes from an abusive home where his father apparently beat his mother in front of him as a child. And Snape seems to have slightly shabby clothes as well which makes me think he didn't have a lot of money in the family even if they were pure bloods, kind of like the Weasleys. He was unpopular with greasy hair and the "jocks" picked on him a lot. He was a jerk though, so I'm sure he brought some of his on himself. He still tells Lilly as she is trying to help him that he doesn't need any mudblood help. After Potter discovers all this about Snape he really gets on his bad side, as if it's possible for Snape to hate Potter even more!

. I am eagerly awaiting more background on Snape in the sixth book. He's an ass but I really like him for some reason. I think he's going to suprise people by the end of the series. I kind of have the same feeling about Draco Malfoy but to a lesser degree, he may be just as bad as his father. Evil to the core.

Well,

Spoiler

I'd always had a secret, inexplicable like for Snape. It's starting to look like that was justified. James Potter was a mean, arrogant jerk -- a typical jock in my experience. I'd wondered about him when the whole quiddich thing came up in the first movie*. Snape was evidently no saint either, but it sounds like he's doing pretty good to have turned out as well as he has. I suppose I ought to condemn Snape more strongly than that but I have an automatic soft spot for the "picked on nerd" type. I never really liked Malfoy, though I did feel a bit sorry for him when we saw his dad in the 2nd movie.

I'm starting to wonder what the relationship with Voldemort was like. I'd always wondered why Voldemort went after the Potters. What was so special about them that he needed to take them out? I wonder if it was nothing more than payback for James Potter being a supreme jerk to Voldemort in their past. (I'm not clear on Voldemort's chronology but I have the impression he was a contemporary of Jame and Lilly Potter.)

It also makes me think about the scene in the shrieking shack in a different light. It would seem odd that Snape was so intent on catching the guy who had supposedly killed Potter in light of this new information. Then again, I suppose Black was no nicer than Potter so he might have been just wanting to see someone who had been such a jerk to him back in jail.

Of course, I start to look on the instance in the first book where Snape tries to save Potter during the quiddich match in a new light. I think there is more to Snape's character than meets the eye.

* In fact, I've remarked to some of my friends on more than one occasion that I think its a wonder Harry has turned out as nice as he has considering what he has had to go through with the Dursleys. It looks like he has even more bad heritage to overcome.

Note: Added a BUNCH of comments during the edit.

 

[Pielorinho]

Max, I agree with you, except I'd add that

Spoiler

Snape is doing the classic abuser thing: having been bullied like crazy as a kid, he's now as an adult turning around and bullying kids himself. Knowing about his past certainly makes him pitiable (which he would hate above all else), but it in no way excuses the abuse and unfairness he's heaped on Harry.

Still, he's a very cool character made heaps more compelling by the revelations in OotP; at this point, I'm more interested in his growth than in Harry's

As an aside, would anyone mind if we gave up the spoiler tags for this discussion of the fifth book? I'm not sure if anyone is still reading this thread who hasn't read Order of the Phoenix yet. If anyone minds, maybe we should start a new thread to continue talking about it.

Daniel

 

[MaxKaladin]

Max, I agree with you, except I'd add that

Spoiler

Snape is doing the classic abuser thing: having been bullied like crazy as a kid, he's now as an adult turning around and bullying kids himself. Knowing about his past certainly makes him pitiable (which he would hate above all else), but it in no way excuses the abuse and unfairness he's heaped on Harry.

Well, I addressed this a bit when I edited my comments in my last post.

Spoiler

I noted how Snape had tried to save Harry during the quiddich match in the first movie. I'm wondering why he did that if he hates Harry so much. One could argue that it was his duty as a teacher, but why weren't Dumbledore or any of the other teachers doing anything? Was he really the only one who knew what to do?

Also, I never really had the impression that Snape was bullying kids. He's very tough on them. He's rather rude, sarcastic, snide and snarky when he talks to them or lectures them. He's a stickler for the rules -- not surprising in someone who was probably picked on a lot more thanks to people looking the other way when it went on (a classic situation in bullying). I get the impression he makes his class academically rigorous, but not unfairly so. He doesn't seem to play favorites, even in the case of Malfoy (who would seem to be a natural ally). In general, he seems to be scrupulously fair if thoroughly unlikable. I suspect that may be why he tried to save Harry at the quiddich match. He may dislike Harry, but he would never stoop to treating him differently.

 

[Pielorinho]

SPOILERS FOR BOOK 5 IN THIS POST!

I noted how Snape had tried to save Harry during the quiddich match in the first movie. I'm wondering why he did that if he hates Harry so much. One could argue that it was his duty as a teacher, but why weren't Dumbledore or any of the other teachers doing anything? Was he really the only one who knew what to do?

I get the impression that he's very moral and very competent, but also very mean. He's screwed up in the past--he supported Voldemort, IIRC--but he's trying to make amends now. He doesn't want Harry to die, but he DOES want Harry to suffer.

For two reasons: first, because he's acting out vengeance on Harry's dad. Second, he's convinced that Harry is going to turn out as bullyish as his dad was, and he's trying to beat that out of Harry.

Also, I never really had the impression that Snape was bullying kids. He's very tough on them. He's rather rude, sarcastic, snide and snarky when he talks to them or lectures them. He's a stickler for the rules -- not surprising in someone who was probably picked on a lot more thanks to people looking the other way when it went on (a classic situation in bullying). I get the impression he makes his class academically rigorous, but not unfairly so.

I totally disagree here, but alas, it's been too long since I've read the books. Over and over, however, he punishes Harry for things Harry didn't do, and lets Malfoy get away with murder. Can anyone else back me up here with some examples?

He's a very complicated character, which is why he's so compelling; even as I hate him, I he earns my grudging respect and admiration.

Daniel

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Was he really the only one who knew what to do?

I think he as the only one who was distrustful enough of Professor Quirrel (sp?) to be on the watch for it. All the others were intently watching the Quidditch match and didn't realize what was happening.