Rate S1: The Tomb of Horrors (corrected poll options)

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

The Tomb of Horrors has been a constant in my campaign setting since about 1982.

Akerack cannot be killed, he, and his tomb, regenerate with time, and the tomb itself actually resides in its own demi-plane.

I've ran it unmodded till 3.0, and scores of PC's have gone through it. The rooms have treasures in it, taken from the slain bodies of adventurer's who have tried thier hand, and failed miserably.

To become a true "Epic" character, a PC must undertake a quest, and the Tomb of Horrors is one of the well known tests that can be done. On the demiplane, there is no ressurection, raise dead, and the like. All who are killed in the tomb are devoured by the demi-lich.

Indeed, my players are entering it in a few weekends in order to retrieve a spellbook from a mage who tried testing his mettle against "The Devouring Tomb" and never returned.



I've noticed one thing, those who don't like it, are the most vocal against "Save or Die" spells. Rather interesting.

I gave it a 10 out of 10.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I would have given it a 0, as it was basically a death-trap dungeon with no redeeming features to my mind, then I remembered one redeeming feature - I enjoyed colouring in the book of room illustrations, so I raised it to a 1.

I'm glad that many people found it enjoyable, but I've never had any fun with it with any of the gaming groups that I've played with.

 

[Melan]

For what it is, and what it tries to accomplish, it is perfection. Thus, my score of 10. The Tomb of Horrors is unfair, occasionally arbitrary and pulls no punches. All true. However, as a test of player decisionmaking skills, it is unparalleled. But you have to abandon standard dungeon exploration tactics to make it through - NO, to make it through the first hallway. Well, sure, the traps aren't like "greendblood oil-smeared needle, lose 4 hit points". They are designed to maim, disfigure and murder. But all of them - except maybe that goofy elephant steamroller thing - can be bypassed, avoided or disabled.

On the first page of this thread, rogueattorney linked a "story hour" featuring a party who succsesfully completed the module with close to no casualties. Read it. It is apparent that even with 1e's more limited player power, a resourceful party does have a chance. Also, there is no point where your characters can't say they have had enough and abandon their attempt to conquer the Tomb - which, remember, was created to be the killer dungeon to end all killer dungeons.

 

[Numion]

'Meta-gaming' apparently is defined as 'having a cautious and thoughtful approach to dungeoneering that includes room for the possibility that a Fireball spell might not be the solution to every conceivable problem a PC might face'.

No, it's the distinction between player and character knowledge. Like I quoted above, someone defines stupid action as trying to play a blaster mage in ToH. Thats meta-stupid, not character-stupid. Hence, metagaming.

You could fill a decent-sized hopper with the character record sheets of PCs of mine that got mulched in death-trap dungeons like ToH, and that was the most fun gaming period I've ever had. In 3.5 the only way a PC can die is if the player decides to kill him in a roleplaying situation. There is no possibility of a so-called balanced encounter with a monster ending a PC's life if the player wants him to live. It used to be you had to 'look up the monster or have the book memorized so you could shout out "November!"', nowadays the klik-kliks come with it stencilled on their foreheads, IE, a player was expected to have some idea of how to play.

It's quite surprising you would say something like this if you've ever played 3E. I've had no trouble killing PCs in 3E, not that it was (always) my goal. Equal EL encounters have quite often killed PCs in my games. Besides the adventure writing guidelines in DMG specifically state that adventures should encounter also significantly higher ELs than their level. If you've not read that part, do that. If you only ever use equal EL encounters you're not playing the game as it was intended.

What makes your "observation" even more untrue is that D&D 3E includes quite a lot of insta-kill spells at medium to high levels. I don't see how you can assert that only roleplaying situations can kill PCs when the opponents might be packing fingers of death and disintegration. Now, there are protections against those, but the protections can be pierced, and there usually is a saving throw. Unlike in ToH.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

The real fun is not seeing when/how you die; the real fun is beating the darn thing and then bragging about it to all who say that it can't be done!

Touche!

And Warlord Ralts, that is an excellent use of S1 and one that I would welcome in a campaign.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

The Tomb of Horrors has been a constant in my campaign setting since about 1982.

Akerack cannot be killed, he, and his tomb, regenerate with time, and the tomb itself actually resides in its own demi-plane.

I've ran it unmodded till 3.0, and scores of PC's have gone through it. The rooms have treasures in it, taken from the slain bodies of adventurer's who have tried thier hand, and failed miserably.

To become a true "Epic" character, a PC must undertake a quest, and the Tomb of Horrors is one of the well known tests that can be done. On the demiplane, there is no ressurection, raise dead, and the like. All who are killed in the tomb are devoured by the demi-lich.

Indeed, my players are entering it in a few weekends in order to retrieve a spellbook from a mage who tried testing his mettle against "The Devouring Tomb" and never returned.



I've noticed one thing, those who don't like it, are the most vocal against "Save or Die" spells. Rather interesting.

I gave it a 10 out of 10.

See - now that's cool. I like that idea especially that it is something important to the advancement of the characters. I still never liked the arbitrary death traps in S1 but the concept of what you have created is very cool.

I'm also pretty vocal about my dislike of save or die spells and effects but a lot of S1 doesn't even allow you that save.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

'Meta-gaming' apparently is defined as 'having a cautious and thoughtful approach to dungeoneering that includes room for the possibility that a Fireball spell might not be the solution to every conceivable problem a PC might face'.

Who has said that? Stop putting words into other peoples mouths. It's unsanitary

You could fill a decent-sized hopper with the character record sheets of PCs of mine that got mulched in death-trap dungeons like ToH, and that was the most fun gaming period I've ever had. In 3.5 the only way a PC can die is if the player decides to kill him in a roleplaying situation. There is no possibility of a so-called balanced encounter with a monster ending a PC's life if the player wants him to live. It used to be you had to 'look up the monster or have the book memorized so you could shout out "November!"', nowadays the klik-kliks come with it stencilled on their foreheads, IE, a player was expected to have some idea of how to play.

Killing Acerak was a dream that many of my PCs saw die as blood foamed from their lips. D&D has never been so much fun.

Whoa - I've seen more Pc deaths in 3E than in all of my 1E/2E days combined! I am amazed you can actually type that without your keyboard exploding. Simply amazed.

Klik-kliks?

 

[Numion]

I've noticed one thing, those who don't like it, are the most vocal against "Save or Die" spells. Rather interesting.

The really interesting part is actually how you came to that conclusion. I've always used save or die effects in my games, because they are a part of the game. Whats good for the PCs are good for the NPCs, too. But my problem with ToH is not this. It's the arbitrary nature of the traps, and the lack of saving throws in some cases. It's like the PCs are forced to play a different game than the DM.

 

[Quasqueton]

On the first page of this thread, rogueattorney linked a "story hour" featuring a party who succsesfully completed the module with close to no casualties.

From my reading of the story, the DM "fudged" to save at least two characters, and he allowed the gem of true seeing to be used infinitely, rather then the 12 times the module says. And I only read up to the "false tomb" room.

Quasqueton

 

[Jupp]

The Tomb of Horrors has been a constant in my campaign setting since about 1982.

Akerack cannot be killed, he, and his tomb, regenerate with time, and the tomb itself actually resides in its own demi-plane.

I've ran it unmodded till 3.0, and scores of PC's have gone through it. The rooms have treasures in it, taken from the slain bodies of adventurer's who have tried thier hand, and failed miserably.

To become a true "Epic" character, a PC must undertake a quest, and the Tomb of Horrors is one of the well known tests that can be done. On the demiplane, there is no ressurection, raise dead, and the like. All who are killed in the tomb are devoured by the demi-lich.

Indeed, my players are entering it in a few weekends in order to retrieve a spellbook from a mage who tried testing his mettle against "The Devouring Tomb" and never returned.

This is just cool! I'll have to use that setup as well.