Rate S1: The Tomb of Horrors (corrected poll options)

[Jupp]

Well, the people I gamed with never resorted to such evil ways but they got through it. You don't have to sacrifice a city to get through this thing.

Looking at our group we would definitely have used a city. It's not that we are a group full of lawfull-good saints More like greedy, power-hungry, money hording....heros We never were happy with playing shiny heros so I think the moral barrier is pretty low here. Not that we didn't save the occasional live of some innocent, but later we went back to get our price. Saving ones life is a costly business.

 

[Desdichado]

I am the 0. Terrible adventure, an excuse to kill characters and that is about it. In other words - I really and truly did not like it, as a DM I refused to run it, as a player I would refuse to play in it.

Same sentiment from me. I also particularly dislike problem solver dungeons, as they feel extremely artificial and "gamey." No love from me.

 

[Henry]

First of all, let's all take a deep breath and hold it a minute. Then, realize that playstyles and opinions will differ on this module.

No one likes being told their play style is bad, or that they're insufficient to the task of playing something, or that they only like hack-and-slash (a negative connotation to most).

Also, please realize that it's not just luck or skill as to why someone liked or survived this module; it's also a play style, a willingness to risk it all, and to get your head chopped off and your gender changed. Similarly, people don't hate this module because they're whiners; they hate it because its basic assumptions are not the way they prefer to play.

Please feel free to continue discussing it, but without the character assumptions about forum members?

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Half the responses to the poll are 8 or better, with the single largest voting block being 10. Cool.

 

[Abraxas]

I have a some questions

1) For those that got through it or had players get through it - was it run tournament style (all in one go) or campaign style (characters could rest)

2) How did you measure success - Acerak's tomb raided of all treasure or Acerak destroyed?

3) For those saying its just skill, how did the characters get by the room with the green slime tapestries given that a random roll can cause them to tear and kill all characters that happen to be standing within a 10'x20' zone next to them?

4) For those not throwing npcs/hirelings/summoned creatures at everything did your group have a wand of secret door and trap detection?


I think a lot of the people who didn't finish may have had DM troubles also - in order for players to get by the things there are actually clues for the DM has to be very careful to describe things exactly as they are - a slight slip and players suddenly have a completely different picture of what is going on than presented in the mod. I know I made one such mistake when running it for a group of my friends that resulted in the deaths of 3 characters.

I Like ToH as an example of a true meatgrinder, but I dislike it as an adventure. There are a number of trial and error parts (that have no clues) that just smack the PCs around - and it struck me as a "how much punishment can I heap on the charcters until the players get frustrated" kind of thing.

I've never been impressed by the folks who did get through by lobbing underlings at everything - thats not skill, its boring.

 

[jokamachi]

First of all, let's all take a deep breath and hold it a minute. Then, realize that playstyles and opinions will differ on this module.

People don't hate this module because they're whiners; they hate it because its basic assumptions are not the way they prefer to play.

Yeah, that pretty much nails it, but we can do without someone's assumptions about gaming foisted off on us like the rule of law. Sadly, that's what this module seems to generate from those ill-equipped to deal with such challenges.

If you don't like the module, don't whine and cry about it. Find your own way to get through it and/or leave your morality issues at the entrance.

 

[Crothian]

1) For those that got through it or had players get through it - was it run tournament style (all in one go) or campaign style (characters could rest)

Campaign style since I always run things as part of a campaign.

2) How did you measure success - Acerak's tomb raided of all treasure or Acerak destroyed?

Acerak destroyed

3) For those saying its just skill, how did the characters get by the room with the green slime tapestries given that a random roll can cause them to tear and kill all characters that happen to be standing within a 10'x20' zone next to them?

recognizing it through knowledge checks and detection spells.

4) For those not throwing npcs/hirelings/summoned creatures at everything did your group have a wand of secret door and trap detection?

Ya, its one of the most useful items for a serious dungeon exploring party. Never leave home without it

 

[lukelightning]

If you don't like the module, don't whine and cry about it. Find your own way to get through it and/or leave your morality issues at the entrance.

Well you do know this is a poll that is asking people's opinions? We are meant to whine and cry about it!

 

[Henry]

I have a some questions...

For myself:

Campaign or trournament style? Campaign style, though tournament style is definitely harder.

Success - Acererak dead and squashed (for good).

Green Slime? Remember that back then Green Slime was far more common, and was deadlier; if adventurers ever had a description of something green and moldy, then they treated it like GS even if it wasn't! Much poor innocent algae died for no reason back in those early days.

TOH was NOTHING for slime-traps though! White Plume mountain...
[sblock]You want nasty? White Plume Mountain had a section of slime UNDERWATER! It would eat through the adventuers' footwear and kill them before they even knew about it![/sblock]

Generally speaking, slime could also be burned off, too. If you were willing to brave the wizard's fireball as an insta-cleaning technique, you'd live.

4) For those not throwing npcs/hirelings/summoned creatures at everything did your group have a wand of secret door and trap detection?

Nope, just a couple of elves with a damned good chance, or a party creeping 10-foot by 10-foot section and trying not to miss a trick. I don't recall a single secret door that would have killed the adventure if you didn't find it, though -- all it meant was you had to take a harder way around.
[sblock]The false acererak was another story though; if you didn't find his secret crypt, then tough luck! It was meant to be so because only someone with careful mapping skill and persistance would figure out where his secret crypt was in order to search for it.[/sblock]

I think a lot of the people who didn't finish may have had DM troubles also - in order for players to get by the things there are actually clues for the DM has to be very careful to describe things exactly as they are - a slight slip and players suddenly have a completely different picture of what is going on than presented in the mod. I know I made one such mistake when running it for a group of my friends that resulted in the deaths of 3 characters.

This is quite true... it's why it's as tough on a DM to run, as it is on players to play.

I've never been impressed by the folks who did get through by lobbing underlings at everything - thats not skill, its boring.

Not skill, true, but it can be fun for a certain style of play... Ask Rob Kuntz...

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Yeah, that pretty much nails it, but we can do without someone's assumptions about gaming foisted off on us like the rule of law.

Even though you quoted it, I don't think you read a word Henry wrote.

You're also in a very interesting Pot-and-Kettle situation.