Krug
Newshound
Well Paris is supposed to have killed Achilles with a bow and arrow, though with some divine aid.
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/p/paris.html
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/p/paris.html
Rate Troy
- Thread starter Krug
- Start date
The Illiad - Troy - possible spoilers
I saw the movie last night and thought it was pretty cool. It didn't have the gut impact of the LotR movies, Gladiator, or Braveheart, but I definitely enjoyed myself. Achilles was awesome in his battles at the temple, followed by his duel with Hector.
I agree with a lot of other posters here....Hector seemed like the most noble person in the film. My girlfriend wasn't familiar with the Illiad, and through the movie, she was cheering for Hector, thinking he was the hero, and Achilles was the villain....and then was pretty upset when he was killed.
However, I'm not sure if my copy of the Illiad is shortened or what....but I just finished reading it about a year ago, and my copy ends with the funeral of Patroclus followed by the funeral of Hector. I had known about the Trojan horse, but it's not even in my copy. Is there another book, or another source that talks about what happens after Hector is killed?
Did Menelaus actually get killed by Briseis?
One thing I seem to remember is that Hercules was in the Illiad, but he didn't appear in Troy....is that correct?
And did Paris kill Achilles with a bow?
Banshee
I saw the movie last night and thought it was pretty cool. It didn't have the gut impact of the LotR movies, Gladiator, or Braveheart, but I definitely enjoyed myself. Achilles was awesome in his battles at the temple, followed by his duel with Hector.
I agree with a lot of other posters here....Hector seemed like the most noble person in the film. My girlfriend wasn't familiar with the Illiad, and through the movie, she was cheering for Hector, thinking he was the hero, and Achilles was the villain....and then was pretty upset when he was killed.
However, I'm not sure if my copy of the Illiad is shortened or what....but I just finished reading it about a year ago, and my copy ends with the funeral of Patroclus followed by the funeral of Hector. I had known about the Trojan horse, but it's not even in my copy. Is there another book, or another source that talks about what happens after Hector is killed?
Did Menelaus actually get killed by Briseis?
One thing I seem to remember is that Hercules was in the Illiad, but he didn't appear in Troy....is that correct?
And did Paris kill Achilles with a bow?
Banshee
The_lurkeR
First Post
Banshee16 said:
I don't remember off hand about your other questions, but yes the Iliad does end with Hectors funeral, and Paris does kill Achilles with an arrow.
I saw the movie yesterday at the matinee, and I rated it an 8. It's no Braveheart, but definately reminiscent of the old "sword & sandals" epics of the past.
You also have to check your love and or knowledge of the actual story at the door. I usually have a hard time doing that, but I was able to enjoy this movie for what it was. It may have helped that they stayed true to the nature of the characters they focused on, even if they did take liberties with their story.
I guess I was just happy they didn't make Achilles into some lovable Superman, and did play out the books sympathetic view of Hector.
shilsen
Adventurer
Banshee16 said:
Depending on the definition, Hector can be seen as the hero of the Iliad. Then again, PB Shelley claimed that Agamemnon was the hero of the Iliad, so depending on definition may not be that good an idea either
There are a number of other sources about the Trojan War. Besides Homer's Odyssey, Apollodorus, Dictys, and Dares the Phrygian are all authors who write about varying aspects of the war. Various perspectives are also present. For a long time, the English claimed descent from a descendant of the Trojans called Brut (hence, the word Britain and British) and in early English literature the Trojans were described as the good guys (as opposed to Homer).
You mean Agamemnon (Menelaus is killed by Hector in the film), and the answer is no. He gets home and his wife Clytemnestra gets him in the bathtub with an axe.
Hercules is not in the Iliad. He is mentioned because he had earlier defeated Troy single-handed.
Yes. Not in the Iliad, again.
Thanee said:
That is both in keeping with the sources and probably historical,
siege engineering isn't really prominent in the historical record until the Classical period about 700-1,000 years later
sort of early siege-tower, with long base for stability, a high neck to reach the top of the walls, and a snout for soldiers to cross safely to the ramparts
The_lurkeR said:
Homer's version no doubt took liberties with earlier epics, and I expect that when he wrote it there were people saying "Homer's Iliad is very good, but you have to check your love of the actual story at the door".
Troy is [a version of] the story of the Trojan War. It is not the story of the wrath of Achilles.
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shilsen said:Depending on the definition, Hector can be seen as the hero of the Iliad. Then again, PB Shelley claimed that Agamemnon was the hero of the Iliad, so depending on definition may not be that good an idea either
There are a number of other sources about the Trojan War. Besides Homer's Odyssey, Apollodorus, Dictys, and Dares the Phrygian are all authors who write about varying aspects of the war. Various perspectives are also present. For a long time, the English claimed descent from a descendant of the Trojans called Brut (hence, the word Britain and British) and in early English literature the Trojans were described as the good guys (as opposed to Homer).
You mean Agamemnon (Menelaus is killed by Hector in the film), and the answer is no. He gets home and his wife Clytemnestra gets him in the bathtub with an axe.
Hercules is not in the Iliad. He is mentioned because he had earlier defeated Troy single-handed.
Yes. Not in the Iliad, again.
Now, are the events of the Illiad completely a myth, or is there historical evidence etc. about there actually being a Trojan War, Helen, Achilles, etc.? Obviously not the mystical stuff....but some of the people, the Trojan Horse, etc.?
Greek history is something I never really studied in school. Lots of stuff about Roman history, as well as Egyptian, but for some reason, not Greek.
Banshee
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad
I saw it this afternoon, and really liked it.
My complaints, which are few, include both Helen and Paris.
The woman who played Helen was a poor actress. Nor is she the face that launched a thousand ships. She's a modern model, and not what I would expect of what is supposed to be the most important female role in this movie. Polydora was played by a FAR, FAR better actress in this movie, who was also much better looking, able to portray the emotions (such as love), and I think she should have played Helen instead.
As for Paris, I know he is supposed to be a big sissy. And yet, I just thought the role was beyond Bloom. He looked like a child (physically). Nor did I buy most of his emotive scenes, whether they were fear, anger, love, or anything. I didn't feel the chemistry between him and Helen (though that was as much Helen's fault as his). He was just there...
Beyond those two, the acting was excellent, the directing was good, and I liked the pacing and the music (enough to buy the score when it comes out).
My complaints, which are few, include both Helen and Paris.
The woman who played Helen was a poor actress. Nor is she the face that launched a thousand ships. She's a modern model, and not what I would expect of what is supposed to be the most important female role in this movie. Polydora was played by a FAR, FAR better actress in this movie, who was also much better looking, able to portray the emotions (such as love), and I think she should have played Helen instead.
As for Paris, I know he is supposed to be a big sissy. And yet, I just thought the role was beyond Bloom. He looked like a child (physically). Nor did I buy most of his emotive scenes, whether they were fear, anger, love, or anything. I didn't feel the chemistry between him and Helen (though that was as much Helen's fault as his). He was just there...
Beyond those two, the acting was excellent, the directing was good, and I liked the pacing and the music (enough to buy the score when it comes out).
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Banshee16 said:
Well, the city on the site known as Troy has been destroyed at lest seven or eight times: earthquakes might have been responsible a few times, but it was probably sacked a number of times.
I have a vague recollection that I came across some mention of diplomatic correspondence preserved at Babylon or Assur or somewhere like that that includes tantalising hints of what might be a quarrel between the Mycenaean empire and the Trojans over slaving raids in Greece, and at about the right time. But I seem to recall that you had to kind of squint to make it out. The only things I recall about this source is that the character in Paris's role was from context clearing a warrior and raider of some experience.
