Rate Troy

[Babette]

i really enjoyed the movie...i also really enjoyed reading peoples opinions.

 

[Berandor]

Look a some classical and Helenistic Greek statues some day. Those models didn't have modern Mediterranean looks. Read in the Iliad about 'golden-haired Achilles' and 'red-haired Menelaus'.

There have been some population movements since 300 BC.

Yeah, and if Hollywood doesn't stick close to history or facts, the only thing they'll do "as realistic as possible" is the casting

I don't mind non-mediterranean actors in the movie, but if you're gonna cast a talentless doll for Helen, at least cast an exotic beauty

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Look a some classical and Helenistic Greek statues some day. Those models didn't have modern Mediterranean looks. Read in the Iliad about 'golden-haired Achilles' and 'red-haired Menelaus'.

There have been some population movements since 300 BC.

Actually, I was thinking in terms of the Mediterranean look coming from representations on pottery close to the theoretical Trojan War time period, and secondarily from later sculpture. While rather different than modern "Mediterranean" appearance, these are still not as Anglo as the movie's cast.

Plus, if any of you is a scholar on the subject, I'm willing to accept that Homer's Achilles may have had red hair, but my gut reaction is to assume that it was a deliberate translation distortion. It's certainly not uncommon for texts to be doctored in the translation process to make them more palatable for the intended audience, and Anglicization (sp?) is a common issue.

 

[haiiro]

I gave it a 3, and it's already become the butt of recent jokes in my gaming group. IMO, the best part takes place in the first few minutes, and after that it's just long, weepy, and overly sentimental.

And I agree with The Goblin King: Penny Arcade had it right.

 

[shilsen]

Plus, if any of you is a scholar on the subject, I'm willing to accept that Homer's Achilles may have had red hair, but my gut reaction is to assume that it was a deliberate translation distortion. It's certainly not uncommon for texts to be doctored in the translation process to make them more palatable for the intended audience, and Anglicization (sp?) is a common issue.

I've been studying Greek mythology for a long time, and though I can't read Greek myself I've spoken to a number of people who do, and I'm quite certain it isn't a translation error. Achilles as blonde and Menelaus as red-haired does seem to be a genuine reading of the original text. There are also some lesser characters who have similar descriptions, though I can't recall any off-hand. I think Euphorbus (IIRC), the one who wounds Patroclus before Hector kills him, was red-haired too.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

I've been studying Greek mythology for a long time, and though I can't read Greek myself I've spoken to a number of people who do, and I'm quite certain it isn't a translation error. Achilles as blonde and Menelaus as red-haired does seem to be a genuine reading of the original text. There are also some lesser characters who have similar descriptions, though I can't recall any off-hand. I think Euphorbus (IIRC), the one who wounds Patroclus before Hector kills him, was red-haired too.

I stand corrected. I've got a friend in Art History I should drag into this. He's quite fond of pre-Hellenistic pottery, though it's not really his area of expertise. I was channeling some of his opinions. Now I've got another area to educate myself in. Who knew a thread on a Brad Pitt movie would lead me to so much self-improvement?

 

[John Crichton]

Just because a thread is 9 months dead, doesn't mean I can't post in it, right?

*****************************************************************

Preface: Just watched Troy on DVD. Right after watching The Incredibles for the second time. That was a mistake.

Perhaps it was the pacing. Or perhaps i was the dead acting by many of the actors but unless Brad Pitt was onscreen. Maybe because many of the actors did it better in Braveheart? Could it have been the accents? Maybe it was the really boring first act (sans Achilles' fight). Whatever it was, this movie really didn't do it for me.

There were some cool parts and some entertaining one-on-one fights. But mostly that was 2 hours and 40 minutes of spears and sandals that could have been so much more. Mind you, I have never read the Iliad. I did know the basic story (how could you not?). There was no style to the film. No balls. Whenever it built up a little steam it quickly fizzled.

Whenever they cut to Agamemnon, I just knew I'd get more ranting along the lines of, "Achilles hates me!! He can't be controlled!! I like power!! Bow before me and bring my pudding!!"

Paris: "I am such a wuss."

Helen: "But you're my wuss." *smoochy smoochy*

Throw in some stuff about Gods and worshipping them. Add in lots of gratuitous Brad Pitt near-nekkid scenes.

Bleh.

Makes me want to go out and read the Iliad just to get the real skinny. They tried to milk Gladiator and Braveheart (with a little LotR) which were far superior films and really fell short. Even the score annoyed me which is rare because I typically love Horner's work. I don't blame him, tho. The music was good but it overly dramatic. I almost wish the film hadn't taken itself so seriously. Then maybe it would have been more fun.

Oh well.

I hope Alexander was better than this. I missed that one in the theater, too...

 

[Capellan]

I hope Alexander was better than this.

No. No it wasn't.

 

[Orius]

Hmm, resurrected thread?

Well, didn't see it in the theaters, but saw it about a month ago on DVD, so I'll add my thoughts.

Gave it an 8, I liked it. There are some strange changes in the story,

Spoiler

like the war lasting all of two weeks, Menelaus getting killed by Hector, Paris surviving and running off with Helen at the end, and Agamemnon getting killed at the end

. But these changes did not diminish my enjoyment of this film.

To me it looks like they took the Iliad, stripped out the divine elements of the story, and focused on the mortal characters. I'd say they did a pretty good job of presenting they story in this manner. Agamemnon was great as a power hungry king seeking to rule the whole world, and Achillies' disdain for him was good too. Hector was portrayed very well too. I liked the "Sword of Troy" element in the story, especially in the end when Paris hands the sword off to Aeneas. I can fully appreciate the meaning behind that with my knowledge of classical mythology, but even someone who doesn't understand the significance there should be able see that not all is lost for the Trojans.

 

[Orius]

Well, the city on the site known as Troy has been destroyed at lest seven or eight times: earthquakes might have been responsible a few times, but it was probably sacked a number of times.

I have a vague recollection that I came across some mention of diplomatic correspondence preserved at Babylon or Assur or somewhere like that that includes tantalising hints of what might be a quarrel between the Mycenaean empire and the Trojans over slaving raids in Greece, and at about the right time. But I seem to recall that you had to kind of squint to make it out. The only things I recall about this source is that the character in Paris's role was from context clearing a warrior and raider of some experience.

I know many historians generally think the Trojan War probably occured over a power struggle between the Mycaeneans and Trojans over control of the Aegean. There seems to be a nod to this in the movie with Agamemnon using Helen as a pretext for another war to fight.

Still, the mythological events in the Iliad make a more entertaining story so we got a film based on that. To those who say they missed the gods: in the Iliad the gods basically bicker and fight over both sides to a silly extent, and often pull their favorites out of danger when they're threatened. Since deus ex machina really isn't appreciated by modern audiences, I think it's good that they did not present any divine intervention in the movie.