Rate WG7 - Castle Greyhawk

[Akrasia]

Caveat: I've never played, DMed, or even read this module.

From all I've heard and read *about* this module, it seems pretty right along in line with how Gygax himself describes how he sometimes ran his game. Read some of EGG's articles in modern Dragon mag.
...

You don't know what you're talking about here, Quas. Why do you make statements like this? It makes no sense. Is it really amusing to you?

Good thing that you at least included the caveat. You should have also included the caveat: "I know rubbish about Gygax's stuff."
:\

 

[Akrasia]

At least we will soon see the real 'Castle Greyhawk' -- now dubbed 'Castle Zagyg', from TLG. The piece of crap that is WG 7 deserves to be forgotten by all sane people.

 

[Dragonhelm]

At least we will soon see the real 'Castle Greyhawk' -- now dubbed 'Castle Zagyg', from TLG. The piece of crap that is WG 7 deserves to be forgotten by all sane people.

Lucky for me, I'm insane.

Looking forward to Castle Zagyg, btw.

 

[Eternalknight]

Come now, Akrasis, no need to be insulting. I am quite sane and enjoyed Castle Greyhawk for what it was, a humourous take on a classic setting.

I can understand why people didn't like it, but there are also some who did enjoy it.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

That module deserves every insult that can be heaped upon it. The writers should beg forgiveness and TSR...well they got what was coming to them.

Like Wizbang said, imagine no 'net and you find a module that you have been looking forward to for a long time, the legendary Castle Greyhawk! You buy it and get...well you get what was in that book. The howls of outrage still ring in my ears.

 

[StupidSmurf]

That module deserves every insult that can be heaped upon it. The writers should beg forgiveness and TSR...well they got what was coming to them.

Like Wizbang said, imagine no 'net and you find a module that you have been looking forward to for a long time, the legendary Castle Greyhawk! You buy it and get...well you get what was in that book. The howls of outrage still ring in my ears.

Very well. Very well. Since you asked so nicely.

I, John Terra, being of unsound mind and extremely good health, do so now officially beg forgiveness for my role in creating the abomination known as Castle Greyhawk. Specification: Willfully and with paycheck aforethought did create the entry known as "The Name of the Game."

With the benefit of hindsight, we see now how Castle Greyhawk, aside from being just a poorly conceived idea, was also responsible for the depletion of the ozone layer, the creation of Al-Quaeeda, the rise of Neo-Nazism, and the main contributing factor in Paris Hilton acquiring any degree of fame. And, even as we speak, experts are hard at work creating a connection between Castle Greyhawk and the outrageous price of gas.

I beg the forgiveness of the gaming community, the relatives of the gaming community, the household pets of the gaming community, and random peasants in Eastern Europe who as of yet have not heard of Castle Greyhawk, but inevitably will. I was young and needed the money. I was drunk. They made me do it. They had photos. They promised me candy. They promised me bigger projects. They promised me my own novel. They threatened to beat me up and take my lunch money. Actually, it wasn't me; it was my evil twin. No. Wait. It was a doppleganger. I was wearing a Helm of Opposite Alignment. The sun was in my eyes. I am not a crook. We don't do tests!!

I had no idea that the foul putrescence of this module would extend unto the next generation. And I, for one, hang my head in shame for my dishonor. If I was a player of Oriental D&D, I'd be picking out a nice seppuku knife right about now.

If anyone needs to contact me, I'll be busy working on that strand of rosary beads made of my old polyhedrons from the late 70's. As a further sign of my penitence I'll utter 45 "Hail Garys" and force myself to watch 8 consecutive showings of the "Dungeons and Dragons" movie, while my wife, dressed as Loviatar, will administer 40 lashes with a rolled up issue of Polyhedron. I am also going to acquire one of Nitro Ferguson's Hubcaps of Shame and wear it round my neck.

 

[diaglo]

that it even made it to print is a sad, sad, sad fact of the state of T$R at the time.


now if StupidSmurf could only get the rest of the crew to apologize.

 

[Quasqueton]

You don't know what you're talking about here, Quas. Why do you make statements like this? It makes no sense. Is it really amusing to you?

Good thing that you at least included the caveat. You should have also included the caveat: "I know rubbish about Gygax's stuff."

I fully realize that WG7 (I won't call it by its name) is a very sore spot for some folks. I love the World of Greyhawk, starting with seeing the 1980 folio in the store, and then purchasing the 1983 boxed set a couple years later. WoG is the only campaign world I've DMed and played in other than my own homebrew. My love affair with WoG gets . . . complicated . . . after ~1988.

When I saw WG7 in the book store, all these years ago, I recognized immediately that this was not EGG's/WoG's "real" Castle Greyhawk. I dismissed it and never bothered fretting or hating over it. For me, the Temple of Elemental Evil and GDQ were the quintissential EGG/WoG mega-adventures.

Although I've always been interested in seeing EGG's original Castle Greyhawk, I know that we'll never get it. Even the thing he's writing now will not be the original, real thing.

And I have read every word EGG ever wrote (that I knew of) about D&D and his personal campaign -- game books, magazine articles (Dragon and other), novels, etc. In the past few years, with his articles in modern Dragon magazine and his postings here, I've learned his games were not as serious (or fair, by his own words) as I had thought for 20 years.

As I said, read some of the modern Dragon articles where he talks about his old games. There was plenty of silliness in his games. Actually, silliness with a mean streak at times. He's even mentioned playing while everyone was essentially tipsy/drunk. (The slingshot to the moon is an actual anecdote from his game displayed by himself in Dragon magazine -- I didn't make that up.)

As an adventure, WG7 could/should have been published with no connection at all to WoG or Castle Greyhawk. It might have been better received if it had been. But I also know, through reading EGG's own words, how his campaign had silliness and foolishness galore. If we were to see the original/real Castle Greyhawk, I'm sure many people would be shocked to see it is not the grand, serious, and meaningful adventure many people have built it up to be in their minds. That, I'm sure, is one reason EGG has/is not publishing it as is.

And, as I pointed out, EGG wrote and published Dungeonland and Beyond the Magic Mirror. Modules based on Alice in Wonderland can't really be said to be terribly serious, although they were quite dangerous adventures -- silliness with a mean streak.

Quasqueton

 

[Dragonhelm]

To me, sometimes you need a module that's a bit "goofy" or "wonky". Obviously, you don't want that all the time, but it's a nice refresher here and there. There's a lot that can be said about a humorous module and lightening the mood.

I've run some very serious campaigns in my time, but I always try to break it up with a bit of humor. To me, it isn't so much about the overall story arc (though that is important) as it is about having fun.

Castle Greyhawk was one of my first tastes of Greyhawk, along with Greyhawk Adventures. That module is partially responsible for me investing a significant amount of money into the world of Greyhawk. I remember picking up modules such as Greyhawk Treasures and Rary the Traitor. I think I have most, if not all, of the Greyhawk boxed sets. It has been a part of my gaming experience for a number of years now.

Though I think Castle Zagyg will do a lot to soothe "old wounds", I have a feeling it won't meet many peoples' expectations. Castle Greyhawk, as an entity, has taken on mythological aspects within the gaming community. We all have this idea of it being this uber-dungeon, the best of the best. Yet when we see it, will it meet our expectations? Or has too much time gone on now for it to be received well? Perhaps Castle Greyhawk "as it was meant to be" should remain a "shining castle on the hill".

 

[StupidSmurf]

I fully realize that WG7 (I won't call it by its name) is a very sore spot for some folks. I love the World of Greyhawk, starting with seeing the 1980 folio in the store, and then purchasing the 1983 boxed set a couple years later. WoG is the only campaign world I've DMed and played in other than my own homebrew. My love affair with WoG gets . . . complicated . . . after ~1988.

When I saw WG7 in the book store, all these years ago, I recognized immediately that this was not EGG's/WoG's "real" Castle Greyhawk. I dismissed it and never bothered fretting or hating over it. For me, the Temple of Elemental Evil and GDQ were the quintissential EGG/WoG mega-adventures.

Although I've always been interested in seeing EGG's original Castle Greyhawk, I know that we'll never get it. Even the thing he's writing now will not be the original, real thing.

And I have read every word EGG ever wrote (that I knew of) about D&D and his personal campaign -- game books, magazine articles (Dragon and other), novels, etc. In the past few years, with his articles in modern Dragon magazine and his postings here, I've learned his games were not as serious (or fair, by his own words) as I had thought for 20 years.

As I said, read some of the modern Dragon articles where he talks about his old games. There was plenty of silliness in his games. Actually, silliness with a mean streak at times. He's even mentioned playing while everyone was essentially tipsy/drunk. (The slingshot to the moon is an actual anecdote from his game displayed by himself in Dragon magazine -- I didn't make that up.)

As an adventure, WG7 could/should have been published with no connection at all to WoG or Castle Greyhawk. It might have been better received if it had been. But I also know, through reading EGG's own words, how his campaign had silliness and foolishness galore. If we were to see the original/real Castle Greyhawk, I'm sure many people would be shocked to see it is not the grand, serious, and meaningful adventure many people have built it up to be in their minds. That, I'm sure, is one reason EGG has/is not publishing it as is.

And, as I pointed out, EGG wrote and published Dungeonland and Beyond the Magic Mirror. Modules based on Alice in Wonderland can't really be said to be terribly serious, although they were quite dangerous adventures -- silliness with a mean streak.

Quasqueton

Well said.
ToEE and GDQ rocked butt. I love 'em. Those adventures became my template for writing my own stuff for my campaigns.

And, in all seriousness, the idea that many people bought WG7 thinking that it was a serious adventure, only to be disappointed and hosed, does indeed bother me. TSR really should have screamed a warning from the rooftops, saying that the module's a goof. While I find it difficult to get TOO worked up over some silly adventure from 15+ years ago, there is admittedly a small part of me that's irritated and embarrassed by the fact that my name is associated with something that was, to many people, a blatant rip-off.

That being said, I stand by my work For what it was, and what was expected of me, I thought it was a solid effort that had its moments!