Rating the 4e conditions

[Jack99]

-Petrified is permanent? Says who?

I meant until the end of the encounter, but see below.

The poison stuff looks very interesting. Thanks.

Strangely enough, after reading through a lot of the Monster Manual and other sources, I find just as many temporary sources of Petrified as there are permanent ones(I can quote the Gray Dragon from Draconomicon off the top of my head), and the permanent ones tend to end when the creature who did the stoning dies.

I was just comparing things based on a single round. Petrified makes you more difficult to harm while disabling you, so it ranks lower on that criteria.

Fair enough. I just figured that since most petrify effects will cause you to be out of the combat for the rest of the time, it would be high on the list. IIRC only the gray dragon and that demon-undead from open grave have the (save ends) petrification. Also, I have never heard anything about petrification reverting when the creature who did the stoning dies. How did you figure that?

 

[deleteme123456]

Y'all forgot ongoing damage.

I'd probably break that into
Ongoing <= 5 per tier
Ongoing > 5 per tier

For the sake of argument, since ongoing 10 at Epic is rather unimpressive, but ongoing 10 at heroic is crazy good (or bad, depending on which end you're on).

I don't have time to write up my full list but I generally agree that helpless, unconscious, stunned, dominated, and dazed are top 5, or maybe top 7 if I'm missing one or two.

 

[bert1000]

This is great!

Very helpful for "stunting" and other improv moves.

Would be great to line up the conditions with a rough damage equivalent. Maybe wouldn't always work but would be a great companion to p.42 of the DMG.

 

[Jack99]

Helpless
Unconscious
Dominated
Stunned
Blinded
Dazed
Weakened
Restrained
Immobilized
Knocked prone
Granting CA (all ennemies)
Slowed
Slid
Pushed
Pulled
Granting CA (one ennemy)
Deafened.

I left out petrified and marked. I would like to hear a bit more from anyone else with an opinion first. Maybe this should have been posted in the 4e rules forum?

Anyway, I am still not convinced that knocked prone should rank higher than grant CA to all ennemies. Did you guys consider that if you grant CA it will usually be until the end of someone elses next turn, or a (save ends) effect, while knocked prone is almost always until your own turn?

EDIT: Also, as mentioned in a post above, what about ongoing damage? While not technically a condition, it would definitely be nice to have on the list.

 

[Phaezen]

Helpless
Unconscious
Dominated
Stunned
Blinded
Dazed
Weakened
Restrained
Immobilized
Knocked prone
Granting CA (all ennemies)
Slowed
Slid
Pushed
Pulled
Granting CA (one ennemy)
Deafened.

EDIT: Also, as mentioned in a post above, what about ongoing damage? While not technically a condition, it would definitely be nice to have on the list.

Would you not include Grabbed as a condition? Most likely same at the same rating as immobilised. It is slightly better for melee characters as it leaves something to hit, but some monsters have nasty things they can do to characters they have grabbed.

Phaezen

 

[Jack99]

Would you not include Grabbed as a condition? Most likely same at the same rating as immobilised. It is slightly better for melee characters as it leaves something to hit, but some monsters have nasty things they can do to characters they have grabbed.

Phaezen

It appears I am a bit blonde today, of course grabbed should be there too. It is definitely not as good as immobilize though, since often immobilize will be a save end effect, or at least until the end of next round. Grabbed you can get out of on your own turn. Maybe just below knocked prone?

Unconscious
Dominated
Stunned
Blinded
Dazed
Weakened
Restrained
Immobilized
Knocked prone
Grabbed (?)
Granting CA (all ennemies)
Slowed
Slid
Pushed
Pulled
Granting CA (one ennemy)
Deafened.

 

[Dausuul]

Here's my list, from worst to best, from a PC standpoint. I've also grouped them into loose categories:

PARALYZING: These conditions shut you down completely.
Unconscious
Asleep (as unconscious but can be woken up)
Dominated
Stunned

CRIPPLING: These conditions seriously reduce your ability to act effectively.
Helpless (note that helpless does not prevent you from acting; you merely grant combat advantage and can be the target of a coup de grace)
Petrified (this really belongs in the Paralyzing list, but the massive damage resistance makes it much less dangerous)
Blinded
Dazed
Weakened
Restrained

LIMITING: These conditions limit your actions, but usually still allow you enough options to function.
Immobilized
Grabbed
Knocked prone
Slowed

TACTICAL: These conditions can give the enemy a tactical advantage but don't significantly impede you.
Granting CA (all enemies)
Slid
Pushed
Pulled
Granting CA (one enemy)
Deafened

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Another effect that has come up often in my games: abilities that make a creature move its speed. As opposed to a pull/push/slide, making a creature move its speed can trigger OAs.

 

[Caliber]

Actually, prone grants CA to melee attacks only, and grants a bonus to all defenses against ranged attacks from nonadjacent enemies. It does grant a -2 penalty to attacks, but it is easily negated with a move action. It is also situationally useful against flying enemies because they fall if they can't reach the ground within a distance equal to their fly speed.

Overall, I wouldn't rate it better than CA (all enemies).

Really? I've never seen that rule re: Prone in Flight. Can you provide a source (I'm interested to know, something similar came up last night; Prone in Water)

Thanks!

 

[deleteme123456]

Really? I've never seen that rule re: Prone in Flight. Can you provide a source (I'm interested to know, something similar came up last night; Prone in Water)

Thanks!

DMG 47: A flying creature that is knocked prone crashes.
DMG 48: Crashing:
1: A flying creature that crashes immediately drops a distance equal to its fly speed. If it reaches the ground, it lands safely.
2: If it has not yet reached the ground, it crashes
3: A creature that crashes falls all the way to the ground and takes falling damage.

[Personal note: this is a really bad choice of words here. Some pedantic rules lawyer is going to argue that step 2 allows the creature to resume from step 1 of "crashing."]