D&D General Ravenloft, horror, & safety tools...

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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Just based on the wisdom I've gained being alive four decades, it isn't an idea I can get behind.

That's a form of Appeal to Authority. It doesn't hold rhetorical water.

Proof? I've been alive longer than you. So, do you accept that my wisdom must therefore be greater, and I am right and you are wrong? No? Good, you shouldn't. But you should then realize that your age is not relevant, either.

No, I am saying there are two groups of people A) people with real mental health issues and B) people who are following a social script for other reasons.

And here, we are off the rails. Unnamed, uncounted, unknown people are lying about their mental health issues, and you cannot prove it, but you know it to be true... should be a basis for policy at tables in general? That doesn't fly as an argument. There's no substance, only shadows of fear.

You are you. We cannot and should not argue that you don't know what is best for you. These tools make you uncomfortable? Don't use them, and ask GMs you work with not to use them with you. But as others should respect your choice in that matter, you should respect theirs. If you want others to accept how you actually know what's best for you, you need to actually accept that they know their own needs better than you do.

Not just pay lip service - actually internally grant that for them it is actually the right choice. No, "well, I have to accept your choice, but I actually think you are doing harm to yourself" stuff. If you aren't up to that, there's no point in conversing on the subject.
 

That's a form of Appeal to Authority. It doesn't hold rhetorical water.

Proof? I've been alive longer than you. So, do you accept that my wisdom must therefore be greater, and I am right and you are wrong? No? Good, you shouldn't. But you should then realize that your age is not relevant, either.
This is just the equivalent of saying "I've been around the block and seen a few things, and this is a familiar pattern to me". It is not a proof, nor is it a formal argument, but it is a perfectly reasonable opinion to express. People don't have to share it, and people can say "he seems unreliable, I don't trust his conclusion". But there is nothin wrong, when we are all looking at the same phenomena and giving our opinion of it, to say this is what it looks like to me. At a certain point we have to factor in things like our intuition, our own experience in reaching conclusion. It isn't all syllogisms.
 



And here, we are off the rails. Unnamed, uncounted, unknown people are lying about their mental health issues, and you cannot prove it, but you know it to be true... should be a basis for policy at tables in general? That doesn't fly as an argument. There's no substance, only shadows of fear.

There is no way this can be proven. It isn't that kind of observation. I am watching new behavior sweep through the gaming community and I think it is entirely fair to say whether I think the behavior is genuine or not (and to base that on my experience of people). It isn't an academic paper. It isn't scientific. I am not claiming that. But we can all clearly see this change occurring. I am not pointing to something that isn't actually happening. And a lot of us are skeptical of the genuineness of it (and of whether it is healthy thing for us to be embracing). You can say it is off the rails. I think it is reasonable.
 

And yet, going by everything you've written, you're using the exact same tactics. I don't care how liberal you are or your degree of "woke"-ness.

Not believing in the efficacy of RPG safety tools, being skeptical of behaviors in the community that seem a little performative, there is nothing right wing about that. There is a lot of left wing people who make these arguments too.
 

You are you. We cannot and should not argue that you don't know what is best for you. These tools make you uncomfortable? Don't use them, and ask GMs you work with not to use them with you. But as others should respect your choice in that matter, you should respect theirs. If you want others to accept how you actually know what's best for you, you need to actually accept that they know their own needs better than you do.

I have no issue with live and let live. Like I said, when it was just x card, it wasnt really an issue. It was more when the consent in gaming came out and there became more of an 'ought' for everyone in the community (at least in many quarters online) that I felt the need to express my opinion on it more. If it were just 'you do what you want, and I will do what I want', I would have zero issue. It just isn't feeling like it is that anymore
 

There is no way this can be proven. It isn't that kind of observation. I am watching new behavior sweep through the gaming community and I think it is entirely fair to say whether I think the behavior is genuine or not (and to base that on my experience of people). It isn't an academic paper. It isn't scientific. I am not claiming that. But we can all clearly see this change occurring. I am not pointing to something that isn't actually happening. And a lot of us are skeptical of the genuineness of it (and of whether it is healthy thing for us to be embracing). You can say it is off the rails. I think it is reasonable.

Right. Because everyone has something they're not comfortable with and has a line they don't want crossed. And it's different for everyone. And the old method of assuming people's lines were the same as the DM's caused problems and made things un-fun
It keeps being brought up because everyone someone suggests that there might need to be a convo where this naughty word is discussed we get someone who mocks the idea of questions its necessity

Every
Single
Time

I have no issue with live and let live.
And yet you've spent four hours and three dozen posts arguing against it
 

Proof? I've been alive longer than you. So, do you accept that my wisdom must therefore be greater, and I am right and you are wrong? No? Good, you shouldn't. But you should then realize that your age is not relevant, either.

I always consider the wisdom of my elders :) I just don't always agree with their conclusions. But seriously I think age can be relevant here. Not in terms of conclusive proof of things. But in terms of sometimes it is valuable to hear out the different opinions of people who have been around longer than you (not just mine but other peoples as well). I mean I would certainly listen to someone who said "but wait I was around for this other event and in my opinion...". It isn't definitive. People shouldn't listen to me just because I am older. But I am explaining that my age is part of what shapes my opinion here. That as you get older you see things, and when you see things again, your opinion is informed by your past experience. It doesn't make me more right or anything.
 


tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
If only there was some kind of form that could be filled out to give the GM an idea...
My point exactly. Perhaps one that ask relevant questions & doesn't make bob or susan look me in the eye while I take notes? I'm really confused about the massive pushback against such things.

Maybe even better since wotc has been putting out markers for flavor of horror like this
instead of a form with a handful of semirandom or even maybe common phobias abusive situations -ism's & so on it could be designed so that it includes questions explicitly relevant to Folk Horror, Body Horror, Dark Fantasy, Gothic Horror, & "ghost stories"*. I made a list of 18 examples based on the tropes in those kinds of horror in the spoiler here earlier and so far the only mention of them was that those kinds of questions are information that I personally want for "hypothetical" reasons rather than it being useful for a GM who might be running those types of horror.

A GM proactively wanting to get a feel for comfort levels on potentially unsettling tropes & themes likely to come up in the various types of horror they intend to run seems like something a responsible GM might want to do over digging into a bunch of phobias & possible traumas with little bearing on the campaign. Do you still disagree? That the form is bad for such a responsible GM given those reasons?

* No link because that's wayy too broad & subdivides too any times to guess based on this
 
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Ash Mantle

Adventurer
There is no way this can be proven. It isn't that kind of observation. I am watching new behavior sweep through the gaming community and I think it is entirely fair to say whether I think the behavior is genuine or not (and to base that on my experience of people). It isn't an academic paper. It isn't scientific. I am not claiming that. But we can all clearly see this change occurring. I am not pointing to something that isn't actually happening. And a lot of us are skeptical of the genuineness of it (and of whether it is healthy thing for us to be embracing). You can say it is off the rails. I think it is reasonable.
To then also make sweeping generalisations about the members of our community based on personal anecdotes is unfair, in my view, as is making unfounded assumptions based on sweeping generalisations.

Unless you actually talk to people you'll have no idea what their personal worries are, some might not even volunteer such information. These tools are good guidelines and ways to empower members of our gaming community to have a voice in the direction of our games and what might be avoided in our games, and we must also remember that the games aren't just about the DMs, our games are played with other people, and our games are ideally played for fun.
Whether or not someone is genuine, we should be offering a safe place for our friends and potential new friends to have a fun and worry-free time.
 

My point exactly. Perhaps one that ask relevant questions & doesn't make bob or susan look me in the eye while I take notes? I'm really confused about the massive pushback against such things.

There's no one-size-fits-all questionnaire
Also, why would they have to fill it out at the table. Can't it be emailed and filled out separately and then sent to the DM?

And if the gamers could get actual feedback for these surveys rather than having every single forum and reddit discussion being derailed by rants on the need for surveys and lines, then they might be able to improve them. It's hard to fix a questionnaire when the only feedback you get is "why is this a thing?"
 

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