D&D 5E Re-opening discussion on multiple spell concentration.

[Tom Donovan]

Now that we've had a few years playing & play testing 5e, I want to revisit the question of concentrating on multiple spells at once. I understand that there are probably a good lot of you that are cool with the RAW, and think that there is no possible way to concentrate on more than one spell at a time without breaking the game. If this is you, I respectfully suggest that this isn't the thread for you. This thread is for people open to considering how it could be done.

That being said, I agree that straight up allowing this sort of thing would break the game. However, I think that only invites inquiry into how it could be balanced. For the purpose of this discussion, I'll use "MSC" as an abbreviation for Multiple Spell Concentration. I'll start with some questions. I'm sure there are other good questions that will help flesh out the concept as time goes on.

1. Should it be a Class Feature, Spellcasting Rule, or Feat?
2. Is MSC something you can do all the time (like normal concentration), or would it be better to require the caster spend his action to concentrate on the additional spell(s)?
3. What are the side effects of MSC?
4. How would attributes and levels affect MSC?

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1. I could see MSC getting rather cumbersome with additional conditions, so I'd rather keep the answer to the first question simple. I think it would be useful to try to make it an amendment to the Spellcasting Rules for concentration in the PHB. That way, all casters could have access to trying out their various unique builds. Making it a Class Feature is my second choice as I don't think that anyone who can cast spells should be able to. But, I think that adding side effects would provide enough drawbacks to dissuade certain builds.
2. By RAW, concentration is something you can do while going about your business. In order to balance the mental effort required to concentrate on two things at once, a pc could choose to give up their action on their turn in order to focus on more than one spell. Or, perhaps he must even forego any action, bonus action, reaction, or movement depending on the complexity of the spells on which he's attempting to concentrate. In my mind, it would be simpler to give the pc penalties to various mental abilities, AC, and/ or movement.
3. As for side effects, that would depend on the answer to the previous question.
   1. If the we look at giving up an action, then, factors that would affect how many phases of the turn are given up would be spell level and how many spells are taking up your concentration. Again, for simplicity's sake, the pc should give up his action for each round he maintains concentration on the additional spell. Perhaps even require a saving throw at the beginning of each turn to determine whether the pc maintains concentration.
   2. If we consider allowing the pc to concentrate and not give up any of his actions, we might look adapt the penalty structure for Cover/ Concealment. For a second low level spell or cantrip, the pc suffers a -2 to all mental skills and ac. For a second spell of equal level, -5 penalty. That sort of rule would be more useful for out of combat situations. Yeah, your human wizard can concentrate on Mage Armour and Darkvision. But, while his mind is occupied with that, he misses the kobold hidden in the crevice to the right.
4. I think that the attribute and proficiency bonuses should offset the penalties without any additional calculations. It would be cool to come up with some progression table. But, again simplicity.

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Anyway, those are most of my thoughts on the topic. What other tweaks would be useful? I've looked into the UA Mystic. I can see some features there that might work.

 

[CapnZapp]

Now that we've had a few years playing & play testing 5e, I want to revisit the question of concentrating on multiple spells at once. I understand that there are probably a good lot of you that are cool with the RAW, and think that there is no possible way to concentrate on more than one spell at a time without breaking the game. If this is you, I respectfully suggest that this isn't the thread for you. This thread is for people open to considering how it could be done.

Keeping it simple, my suggestion is that this is what the Wizard's Spell Mastery should have been.

That is:

"At 18th level, you have achieved such mastery over certain Spells that you can maintain concentration of them together with other spells. Choose a 1st-level wizard spell and a 2nd-level wizard spell that are in your Spellbook and requires Concentration. You can cast either of those Spells at its lowest level and still cast a second spell that requires Concentration. If you fail a Concentration check while concentrating on two spells, you lose both spells."

This opens up the possibility that archmages can do it, while still not allowing it for 95% of the game.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[FrogReaver]

If you are going to this then consider only allowing a wizard to concentrate on combined effects up to his highest spell slot level.

So a wizard that. Can cast level 5 spells can concentrate on fly and invisibility but not fly and hypnotic pattern.

 

[OB1]

Welcome to the boards. Have some XP.

I'd vote for a feat, as then you don't have to rewrite any classes.

Feat
Concentrate
Prerequisite - 11th level in any spellcasting class
You gain 3 Concentration points. When concentrating on a spell, you can spend concentration points when casting another concentration spell to concentrate on both spells at once. Both spells must be of 5th level or lower. You cannot use this feature if you have 1 or more levels of exhaustion.
Same level and same class - 1 Point
Different level or different class - 2 Points
Different level and different class - 3 Points
You regain all of your concentration points when you finish a long rest.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

If I wanted to allow it, but not make it easy or automatic, I'd probably require a concentration check each round to maintain concentration on two spells. Concentration checks required for other reasons (such as taking damage) would be made at disadvantage.

I'd probably be against simply requiring an action to maintain, not because of power, but for the same reasons that crossbows reload in a round: the game seems set up to make sure that players get to do something every round rather than having to pass rounds.

 

[Fleetwood C. DeVille]

For the sake of argument I will suppress my fear that allowing multiple concentration spells would cause a singularity to form and wiping out all life.

If such a thing did exist I would be leery of making it a feat. That would assume your game already has feats (which I have zero problems with). I would be more worried about it becoming the "automatic" feat that all spell-casting classes would pick up. (Lucky feat..call your office).

 

[Fanaelialae]

I added a rule recently (which none of my players have yet tried).

You can concentrate on multiple spells at the same time. Each concentration spell beyond the first incurs a cumulative -5 penalty to concentration checks. When you cast a concentration spell while concentrating on other spells, you must immediately make a concentration check or lose concentration on all spells except the one you are casting. If you are damaged, you make one check for all spells you are currently concentrating on.

This makes it a risky maneuver rather than something to be spammed every encounter. If you need to try, you can attempt it, but it is never guaranteed. I'm fine with the idea in concept, but I don't feel that the rule for it should be so generous that it is regularly attempted (unless perhaps a feat is involved).

 

[Tom Donovan]

I like this idea. Only problem is that I've never yet played a high level campaign. But, having it and no other penalties does make sense.

 

[smokerdragoon]

In my games, I allow casters to pass concentration of a spell to their familiars. If the familiar takes damage, it makes the concentration check.

 

[Tom Donovan]

If you are going to this then consider only allowing a wizard to concentrate on combined effects up to his highest spell slot level.

So a wizard that. Can cast level 5 spells can concentrate on fly and invisibility but not fly and hypnotic pattern.

Ok. So, you're suggesting that a caster would only be able to concentrate on two spells, let's say, half max spell lvl +1? Fair enough.