Reach Weapons

[apesamongus]

A whip is considered a Ranged weapon, (sadly)

Not in 3.5. It still provokes, but has none of the benefits of a ranged weapon.

 

[Bront]

You don't gain an extra 5 reach.
If you are medium, and are enlarged, you threat 20' around you.

Beware

Sorry, extra 5 feet of natural reach.

You only threaten up to 15' away from you though. With your normal 5' natural reach, you only threaten 10', add 5 to that and you get 15'.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Sorry, extra 5 feet of natural reach.

You only threaten up to 15' away from you though. With your normal 5' natural reach, you only threaten 10', add 5 to that and you get 15'.

Er, no.

You start out threatening at 5'. A spiked chain increases that to 10'.

When you get hit with an Enlarge spell, your natural reach becomes 10'. A reach weapon like a spiked chain increases that 20'.

 

[Bront]

Er, no.

You start out threatening at 5'. A spiked chain increases that to 10'.

When you get hit with an Enlarge spell, your natural reach becomes 10'. A reach weapon like a spiked chain increases that 20'.

Why? Speaking for the particular spell, is says nothing about reach weapons gaining extra reach, or regular weapons gaining extra reach, only the character gaining extra reach.

So an enlarged human with a longsword only threatens 2 squares away, one with a longspear threatens only 4 squares away, and one with a spikes chain threated every enemy up to 4 squares away from it? That doesn't make sense to me. Can you find this in the RAW anywhere?

 

[Celebrim]

You trip them in the square where you made the AoO, i.e. the square he was leaving. He has not left yet. It's the act of leaving the square you threaten that causes the AoO. There's really no counterargument.

Good. I've been doing it right then.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Why? Speaking for the particular spell, is says nothing about reach weapons gaining extra reach, or regular weapons gaining extra reach, only the character gaining extra reach.

The important part is that the spell increases your weapons along with you. So ...

So an enlarged human with a longsword only threatens 2 squares away, one with a longspear threatens only 4 squares away, and one with a spikes chain threated every enemy up to 4 squares away from it? That doesn't make sense to me. Can you find this in the RAW anywhere?

1. Longsword: Threaten at 5' and 10'
2. Longspear: Threaten at 15' and 20'
3. Spiked Chain: Threaten at 5', 10', 15', and 20'

Here's the quote and the answer to your question:

Reach Weapons: Glaives, guisarmes, lances, longspears, ranseurs, spiked chains, and whips are reach weapons. A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren’t adjacent to him or her. Most reach double the wielder’s natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.

 

[Bront]

Cool. The reach weapon changes for large creatures was what I was missing. That explains a lot (My DM is not going to be happy though).

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Cool. The reach weapon changes for large creatures was what I was missing. That explains a lot (My DM is not going to be happy though).

Heh, heh, heh. Happy hunting!

 

[Hypersmurf]

Though I've seen it argued that a Large creature with a Spiked Chain threatens 5', 15', and 20', but not 10'.

"A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away."

"In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, [a spiked chain] can be used against an adjacent foe."

Therefore, a Large character wielding an appropriately-sized spiked chain can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away or an adjacent foe, but not creatures 10 feet away.

-Hyp.

 

[Celebrim]

So why does everyone like spiked chain so much? I get that there is an exploit, but spiked chain just seems so LAME I can't imagine using one.

The spiked chain is an utterly lame uber weapon as written. It's so good as written, one wonders why armies of professional chain-wielding soldiers weren't conquering half the known world.

I guess it was because no one ever invented it, considering that well, you can't actually find such a weapon anywhere in the historical world. Unspiked chains, sure. Even unspiked chains with weights on both ends. Chains with a weapon on one end, sure. But hardly ever reach weapons with chains on one end, or weapons with enough chain on the end to count as reach. Every eastern martial art chain weapon I've seen uses a thin relatively flexible chain that is very much designed to be grabbed anywhere along its length and is employed in a fashion somewhere between a whip and a staff. The chinese 9 section chain would be a great example of a chain designed by someone who very much understood that the critical problem to overcome was control. The whole thing is about 4' long mind you, its most certainly not a reach weapon.

Back when I was a roguish street punk, my brother and I spent quite a while practicing with lengths of chain. I can tell you that one reason you'd never use a spiked chain is it would cut you to peices. You very much have to regain control of the chain constantly, and you can't do that with spikes along its length. It would be as bad or worse than trying to handle a numchuka with knife blades. Moreover, its incredibly difficult to parry a heavy weapon (like a baseball bat) with a chain, even if you are strong. I understand real chains were used to parry swords, buts that a whole different ballgame.

As far as I can tell, the primary reason for chain weapons existence (like most eastern weapons) is that they were hold-out weapons which could be easily concealed or explained. The eastern thugs using those chains weren't using them for very different reasons than my brother and me were practicing with them - except that they probably had more serious intentions to use them.

Most real chain weapons should be classified as flails of some sort in my opinion, or perhaps as whips that do lethal damage rather than non-lethal.

If you want a weapon with characteristics like a spiked chain, use a long staff or a 3-section staff or some such.

I've not come up with a good fix to the spiked chain. I'm thinking of banning it, but that seems drastic. Right now what I do is double its 'fumble' range from 1 to 1-2. The fact that they are now alot more likely to bash themselves or an ally with the 'spiked chain' has detered players enough that it's not really come up, but I wonder if this is the best situation.