Read #4750 last night

[Celebrim]

"a) Most of the settings already on the market are crap."

Like this wasn't already well known.

In fact, the more popular the setting is, the more likely it is to be crap. Forgotten Realms is in many ways the worst D&D setting ever, both in terms of originality and internal consistancy. I'd bet that 80% of the submissions are better than FR.

However, those of you thinking that pre- post- or mid-appocalypse worlds are going to have advantages, consider:

Athas (Dark Sun) was a post appocalypse world.
Krynn (Dragon Lance) was both a post- and mid-appocalypse world.
Sword & Sorcery's 'The Scarred Lands' is a post appocalypse world.

I think the post appocalyptic world has been done to death.

As to 90% being crap, that still leaves them with 1000 submissions of settings that are as good or better than Bloodright, Planescape, Ravenloft, Harnworld, or (insert your favorite fantasy setting here). I'd be intimidated too. I don't think what is going to distinguish the final winners is originality. They probably have 500 original ideas dividable into 50 or more major themes. What is going to distinguish the winners is single sentences that make the editor go, "Hmm. I want to here more from this guy." And, in the first cut, that is as much going to be luck as anything else.

I imagine 'Floating Islands' are just one of the major 'Fantastic Geography' themes that includes things like worlds that are actually flat, worlds on the insides of spheres, worlds on multiple spheres that people fly back and forth from, worlds with eternal night/day divisions, worlds that are the rubble of a previous world, worlds that are actually living creatures of emmense size, worlds that are actually magical constructs/ships/artifacts, and so forth.

 

[seasong]

I imagine 'Floating Islands' are just one of the major 'Fantastic Geography' themes that includes things like worlds that are actually flat, worlds on the insides of spheres, worlds on multiple spheres that people fly back and forth from, worlds with eternal night/day divisions, worlds that are the rubble of a previous world, worlds that are actually living creatures of emmense size, worlds that are actually magical constructs/ships/artifacts, and so forth.

You gave me a good idea:

An asteroid field with cities constructed on asteroids, artificial asteroids, flat asteroids, hollow world asteroids, giant celestial dragons, and permanent mile-wide spheres of force. Tiny suns orbit with the asteroids, giving only enough light to illuminate certain areas of the asteroid fields, and leaving large chunks in permanent darkness. Orcs (with darkvision) dwell in the eternal night, breeding like cockroaches and plotting to destroy the suns so they can rule everything. Low-power versions of spell jammer ships allow travel between the microworlds in the light. You could treat the suns as gods who drive back the darkness, fitting the default Cleric to a T.



Now if only I'd submitted that one .

 

[Norris]

At the risk of putting words in WOTC's mouth, they said they wanted a setting similar to Forgotten Realms and Dragon Lance. The "real" criteria is probably this:

Any player (new, old, experienced, inexperienced) has to be able to start playing in this universe with a minimum of education by the game master.

If its flying islands, the players "discover" the fact in course of going from point A to point B. If its living forests, the players "discover" it as they play. (If the game master has to spend the first session explaining that every manor is dominated by a Lord who is an Undead Noble, and there is a certain social hierarchy, etc etc, the players lose interest because they are not playing, they are having to listen. That isn't the fun the players expect.)

My own thought is that the setting needs to have a "surface" hook or concept that the players learn about immediately, and then the Bible for the setting has secret appendices for the writers. Gradually, as the adventures in the setting take place, players discover more and more about the world (like it has flying islands, or that the islands are powered by the sacred flowers of Koth, or whatever.

But at its core, the new setting has to let anyone play their character or character class from whatever other campaign they already have without major changes.

Norris

 

[BigFreekinGoblinoid]

...At the risk of putting words in WOTC's mouth, they said they wanted a setting similar to Forgotten Realms and Dragon Lance.

Norris

**** BIG SIGH**** I'm sure you are right, and this is exactly why I did not enter the contest. I'm sure my CW would have been deemed "too different". WotC is looking for more of the same, and unfortuantely will get it.

 

[Hakkenshi]

WotC said the world had to be similar in SCOPE to Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms. That means the heroes are larger-than-life adventurers, not farmers trying to repeatedly save their harvest from dire gophers.

The world has magic, monsters, etc. That's the basic principle. As for the surface "hook" of the world, why exactly do you think that WotC had the first part of the submission be the ethos sentence for your world? To prove that the driving concept behind your world is an easily-explained and engaging one.

I don't think D&D NEEDS another standard medieval world like DL or FR, which is why I submitted something different. I'll probably be proven wrong, but I had to try it this way.

 

[BigFreekinGoblinoid]

"...However, those of you thinking that pre- post- or mid-appocalypse worlds are going to have advantages, consider:

Athas (Dark Sun) was a post appocalypse world.
Krynn (Dragon Lance) was both a post- and mid-appocalypse world.
Sword & Sorcery's 'The Scarred Lands' is a post appocalypse world.

I think the post appocalyptic world has been done to death.

What exactly was the "apocalyse" for Dark Sun?

 

[Hakkenshi]

What exactly was the "apocalyse" for Dark Sun?

Does it really matter? I don't even know Dark Sun very well, but I can tell that Athas has the feel that we generally associate with post-apocalyptic (whether it really is or not).

 

[bwgwl]

What exactly was the "apocalyse" for Dark Sun?

i'm most definitely not a Dark Sun guru, but from what i recall there was:

1) "defiling" magic that turned a previously lush and fertile planet into a world-spanning desert

2) a genocide that wiped out many traditional races (gnomes, goblins, orcs, trolls, etc.)

 

[BigFreekinGoblinoid]

Does it really matter? I don't even know Dark Sun very well, but I can tell that Athas has the feel that we generally associate with post-apocalyptic (whether it really is or not).

Thanks, and bwgwl too. Athas sounds cool. I'm definitely gonna be playing close attention to the 3E conversion being done at

http://www.athas.org/

as we speak. SO - basically WotC does not have a current 3E post apocalyptic campaign. That just further leads me to believe that they WILL choose one. Especially considering that S&S's Scarred Lands Campaign will print less sourcebooks for that world than they already have printed.

I'm willing to bet ( say if I'm wrong, anyone who bets me can choose a D&D sourcebook of mine from a list I compile ) that they will eventually go this route. I'll take this bet from the first 10 people that take me up on it. But if I'm right - I get a sourcebook/adventure from whomever bets me! ) I will have Rokugan, Fading Suns, Elric, Star Wars and WoT stuff on this list - just to tempt somone...

 

[Mirth]

Well, we officially have one week left in August, so I thought this thread deserved a *BUMP*!!! Anyone think Wizards is going to delay it again? I don't, but I wondered what others thought.

On another note, BigFreekinGoblinoid, I will take you up on your bet. I have a feeling that Wizards wants a 3rd edition "generic" setting and not a niche setting like Athas, and I'm willing to put my copper pieces where my mouth is. Let's Roll!

Jay