Readied Actions and Timing
- Thread starter ControlFreak
- Start date
ControlFreak
First Post
As far as readied actions out of combat, if an NPC knows that the PC's are around the corner, but the PC's don't know that the NPC is there, sometimes I will allow a "secret" surprise round for the NPC to ready an action before I even have the PC's roll initiative. In this case I didn't even have them roll until the guy peeked around the corner for the shot.
ControlFreak
ControlFreak
CRGreathouse
Community Supporter
Re: It's not so bad a houserule
Well, allow me to disagree. It's important that readied actions hapen before the action that triggers them, because if not:
* You lose an action - and you've already been downgraded from a full attack to a single attack
* You can't interrupt actions (spells) from happening
* It makes Ready, a usually bad strategic choice, much worse
Spider said:
Well, allow me to disagree. It's important that readied actions hapen before the action that triggers them, because if not:
* You lose an action - and you've already been downgraded from a full attack to a single attack
* You can't interrupt actions (spells) from happening
* It makes Ready, a usually bad strategic choice, much worse
IceBear
Explorer
Again, it will only occur if someone has just completed a Full Round Action and then took a 5ft step into your line of sight. It really wouldn't come up any other time.
If someone had a spellcaster 30ft in front of them and he decided to trigger on "I attack the first person to come within 25ft of me" and then the spellcaster spontaneously casts a maximized magic missle at him and then stepped up 5ft (to within 25ft) AFTER the spell was cast and the damage determined it doesn't make sense to have the defender roll to hit before the spell was cast (and thus possibly disrupt it). For all intents and purposes, in the above scenario the spellcaster had finished his actions for the round before the readied action was triggered so why would it now occur before?
Yes, I know that readied actions occur just before the action that triggered them and that's why they move to just before the target in the initiative count. I have no problem with that in most cirumstances, but in the above one I do.
In the above scenario the archer probably would have picked a different trigger for the readied action - "If he starts casting a spell" - and then he would be ahead of the spellcaster in the initiative count.
Thus, I say again, I think the only time this houserule would come into play is if someone moved into someone's line of sight after taking a Full Round Action. Something that's not going to occur very often, and if it did it would make no sense at all that the readying character's initiative would move to just ahead of the creature that just FINISHED it's actions for the round.
If a spellcaster moved 20ft around a corner and started casting a spell I would still consider that there was enough of that initiative count remaining (the spellcaster hasn't completed his action for the round yet unlike the Full Round Action + 5ft) that the readied action would be treated as normal and the archer would go just ahead of the spellcaster in the initiative count.
IceBear
If someone had a spellcaster 30ft in front of them and he decided to trigger on "I attack the first person to come within 25ft of me" and then the spellcaster spontaneously casts a maximized magic missle at him and then stepped up 5ft (to within 25ft) AFTER the spell was cast and the damage determined it doesn't make sense to have the defender roll to hit before the spell was cast (and thus possibly disrupt it). For all intents and purposes, in the above scenario the spellcaster had finished his actions for the round before the readied action was triggered so why would it now occur before?
Yes, I know that readied actions occur just before the action that triggered them and that's why they move to just before the target in the initiative count. I have no problem with that in most cirumstances, but in the above one I do.
In the above scenario the archer probably would have picked a different trigger for the readied action - "If he starts casting a spell" - and then he would be ahead of the spellcaster in the initiative count.
Thus, I say again, I think the only time this houserule would come into play is if someone moved into someone's line of sight after taking a Full Round Action. Something that's not going to occur very often, and if it did it would make no sense at all that the readying character's initiative would move to just ahead of the creature that just FINISHED it's actions for the round.
If a spellcaster moved 20ft around a corner and started casting a spell I would still consider that there was enough of that initiative count remaining (the spellcaster hasn't completed his action for the round yet unlike the Full Round Action + 5ft) that the readied action would be treated as normal and the archer would go just ahead of the spellcaster in the initiative count.
IceBear
Oracular Vision
First Post
IceBear said:
I think you are misunderstanding what a 5-ft adjustment is. It recreates the tactical change of position that occured during the round. For game mechanics, it is done after or before the full-round or other action, if it is allowed, but it is considered to have been made during the whole round, not at the end or beginning, thus giving the archer the opportunity attack. The wizard was 'adjusting' during the round, we just do it in the beginning or end because of the need to have a sequence. So, he begins to adjust and cast a spell, setting off the readied action. I don't see any confusion about it, the rule is clear and works well. The spellcaster has not, in fact, completed his actions before adjusting. Remember, it is not considered movement, which is a separate category of actions.
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IceBear
Explorer
No I do understand that the adjustment is occuring at the same time as the action. I understand that the reason we're having this discussion is that it's an artifact of using segmented "rounds" to simulate real time.
So do you, in the case of a sorcerer spontaneously casting a metamagiced spell, actually make him move before determining damage, etc? The mentality of 3E has been to do things as it happens (that's why no declaring actions before your initiative count, you just do what you want - you don't even have to declare Full Round Attacks until your second attack). Based on that, my example with the sorcerer being hit before casting a spell (even though the spell was already cast) is a valid one. I am sure that you might say to wait until the caster has finished all his actions before resolving spells, etc, but if you do that would you allow a spellcaster to cast a fireball spell and then move into the area of effect suffering damage from the fireball and AoO from the kobolds that the fireball will kill once the damage is rolled? Obviously you wouldn't.
Anyway, all of this is just to point out how MY mind sees combat rounds working. Thus, for my game (and Daniel too) I like to use this house rule and that it really doesn't come up so often that it "screws" readied actions.
As with any house rule, YMMV, but I like it because it "fits" better for me. That's all. I was just responding to those that think it messes up readied actions. I've been using it for a couple of months now and no one complained the ONE time it came up.
IceBear
So do you, in the case of a sorcerer spontaneously casting a metamagiced spell, actually make him move before determining damage, etc? The mentality of 3E has been to do things as it happens (that's why no declaring actions before your initiative count, you just do what you want - you don't even have to declare Full Round Attacks until your second attack). Based on that, my example with the sorcerer being hit before casting a spell (even though the spell was already cast) is a valid one. I am sure that you might say to wait until the caster has finished all his actions before resolving spells, etc, but if you do that would you allow a spellcaster to cast a fireball spell and then move into the area of effect suffering damage from the fireball and AoO from the kobolds that the fireball will kill once the damage is rolled? Obviously you wouldn't.
Anyway, all of this is just to point out how MY mind sees combat rounds working. Thus, for my game (and Daniel too) I like to use this house rule and that it really doesn't come up so often that it "screws" readied actions.
As with any house rule, YMMV, but I like it because it "fits" better for me. That's all. I was just responding to those that think it messes up readied actions. I've been using it for a couple of months now and no one complained the ONE time it came up.
IceBear
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