Readied Actions

[ForceUser]

Since this isn't in the rules forum, I won't limit myself to RAW interpretation in my responses.

Readying an action outside of combat makes perfect sense, including 'covering' a door, or keeping a weapon trained on someone during parlay. If a player wanted to do either, I would allow it freely for up to say 3 rounds then require a concentration check to maintain a truely readied condition. (say dc 10 plus 2 each continued round.)

Readying for any hostile action works for me as well. I'm ok with "hit the first person who attempts to enter melee with me" or "Shoot the first person who attacks this ally." Then again, I really liked the "reverse initiative" from an old star wars game, where the side with a lower initiative declared their actions first, then the side with the higher one could act to try to preempt them.

Free use of readied actions, imo, allows for more dramatic and cinematic fights and should be encouraged.

Just because you're holding your crossbow at the ready, covering the door and waiting for your mate to bust it open so you can fire at the first bad guy you see, doesn't mean that you can pull the trigger faster than that bad guy can rend you limb from limb. Think of the Alien movies--how often did those guys get the drop on the aliens, even when they knew that the beasties were close? 50% of the time? Less? Some monsters can move faster than the eye can follow. Thematically, it makes sense to me that even though you're covering the door with your crossbow, you still need to roll initiative to determine if you can aim and pull the trigger before the troll powers his way through and takes your head off with a swipe of his claw. Thus, we have the initiative mechanic to determine this outcome. It's perfectly logical to me, and furthermore, it's necessary. If PCs can walk around readied, so can bad guys. And you don't want that, because there are always more bad guys than PCs.

 

[Rel]

If PCs can walk around readied, so can bad guys. And you don't want that, because there are always more bad guys than PCs.

There also is the issue of how the game flows if this is allowed. If the players want to try and avoid surprise or losing initiative then they are going to constantly be interjecting stuff when you're just trying to be descriptive:

DM - "You round the corner and see a hallway extending into the darkness. On the left is a door..."

Fighter Player - "I Ready to Charge anything that comes out the door!"
Rogue Player - "I Ready to Flank anybody the Fighter Charges!"
Wizard Player - "I Ready to Magic Missile any creature that comes out that door!"
Cleric Player - "I Ready to Turn Undead if an Undead comes through the door!"

DM - "...and in the hallway there is a dark figure..."

Fighter Player - "I Ready to Charge the figure if it looks hostile!"
Rogue Player - "I Ready to Flank anybody the Fighter Charges!"
Wizard Player - "I Ready to Magic Missile the figure if it attacks!"
Cleric Player - "I Ready to Turn Undead the figure is Undead!"

DM - "...that turns out to be a statue next to another door on the right..."

Fighter Player - "I Ready to Charge anything that comes out the door!"
Rogue Player - "I Ready to Flank anybody the Fighter Charges!"
Wizard Player - "I Ready to Magic Missile any creature that comes out that door!"
Cleric Player - "I Ready to Turn Undead if an Undead comes through the door!"

DM - *sigh* "About that House Rule on Readying outside combat..."

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Just because you're holding your crossbow at the ready, covering the door and waiting for your mate to bust it open so you can fire at the first bad guy you see, doesn't mean that you can pull the trigger faster than that bad guy can rend you limb from limb. Think of the Alien movies--how often did those guys get the drop on the aliens, even when they knew that the beasties were close? 50% of the time? Less? Some monsters can move faster than the eye can follow. Thematically, it makes sense to me that even though you're covering the door with your crossbow, you still need to roll initiative to determine if you can aim and pull the trigger before the troll powers his way through and takes your head off with a swipe of his claw. Thus, we have the initiative mechanic to determine this outcome. It's perfectly logical to me, and furthermore, it's necessary. If PCs can walk around readied, so can bad guys. And you don't want that, because there are always more bad guys than PCs.

either way of doing it is perfectly logical, as long as you implement a consistant mechanic. You like to always start initiative at first physical contact, I'm willing to work with pre contact initiatives, readying etc. You can't be "constantly ready" because your concentration will lapse eventually, and if you are wound up readying on the door and the alien pops out of the air vent you are screwed.... and of course a readied action won't always hit, which describes most ofthose scenes in Aliens just as well.

 

[Hjorimir]

There also is the issue of how the game flows if this is allowed. If the players want to try and avoid surprise or losing initiative then they are going to constantly be interjecting stuff when you're just trying to be descriptive:

DM - "You round the corner and see a hallway extending into the darkness. On the left is a door..."

Fighter Player - "I Ready to Charge anything that comes out the door!"
Rogue Player - "I Ready to Flank anybody the Fighter Charges!"
Wizard Player - "I Ready to Magic Missile any creature that comes out that door!"
Cleric Player - "I Ready to Turn Undead if an Undead comes through the door!"

DM - "...and in the hallway there is a dark figure..."

Fighter Player - "I Ready to Charge the figure if it looks hostile!"
Rogue Player - "I Ready to Flank anybody the Fighter Charges!"
Wizard Player - "I Ready to Magic Missile the figure if it attacks!"
Cleric Player - "I Ready to Turn Undead the figure is Undead!"

DM - "...that turns out to be a statue next to another door on the right..."

Fighter Player - "I Ready to Charge anything that comes out the door!"
Rogue Player - "I Ready to Flank anybody the Fighter Charges!"
Wizard Player - "I Ready to Magic Missile any creature that comes out that door!"
Cleric Player - "I Ready to Turn Undead if an Undead comes through the door!"

DM - *sigh* "About that House Rule on Readying outside combat..."

The problem here stems from ridiculous players really. Think about the scene in Fellowship of the Ring with the heroes waiting for the orcs to bash the door down. The heroes were obviously readying actions even though the combat had not started. I want a flow to my game that emulates things a bit closer to how I envision them playing out as if it were really happening.

I'm pretty confident that my players won't be shouting out READY THIS and READY THAT because we don't really play the kind of game. If they did, I could easily turn it against them. "So, what you're telling me is that you all stand around looking at a door." Or, I just randomly put in Gas Spores to dissuade any such nonsense.

That would get pretty old for the players in a hurry and it would go away with being a problem. Seriously, you're letting the rules run the game instead of the DM.

There are instances where the rules break down completely and a good DM needs to recognize when to intervene. Here is an example:

A knight (complete with Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack, and Spirited Charge) starts his charge across the field to skewer an opponent. Unfortunately, after a double move, he is 15 feet short. His opponent, on his turn, moves up 15 feet (provoking an AOO) and then attacks himself. Now somehow the knight has missed his charge and is now adjacent to his original target with his lance.

If I'm the DM, I allow the AOO to go off as a Charge. But I'm weird that way.

 

[Rel]

I want a flow to my game that emulates things a bit closer to how I envision them playing out as if it were really happening.

I agree completely which is why I use the "DM's Best Friend", the good old +2 Circumstance Bonus to Initiative when they are obviously getting ready for combat to start at a certain point. But I don't like the idea of the entire Initiative mechanic being circumvented.

 

[Philip]

Every adventurer is always readying when moving through a hostile dungeon. That's the default assumption. Many monsters in the dungeon are also constantly readying. What happens when both groups meet?

Exactly, you roll initiative!

What happens when one group is readying while the other's aren't?

Exactly, the readying group gets a surprise round.....

Think about the scene in Fellowship of the Ring with the heroes waiting for the orcs to bash the door down. The heroes were obviously readying actions even though the combat had not started. I want a flow to my game that emulates things a bit closer to how I envision them playing out as if it were really happening.

Not only where the heroes readying, the orcs too! Guess what happens now: you roll initiative, generally causing the fastest characters to go first!

Initiative is a way to break the circle of everyone readying. If a combat occurs where everybody is readying or delaying, I will declare combat over, and will ask for new initiative if anyone wants to break the readying stalemate.

You should use common sense to determine if a readied action can interrupt something. Suppose: a hero sees his opponent turn invisible, and readies to shoot an arrow at him if he becomes visible again. His opponent shoots an arrow at the hero. Some players seem to think that they can interrupt the invisible shooter, possible killing him before he launches the arrow. But logically, if they do, the invisible shooter never attacked, and thus never became visible, and never triggered the ready action. If they act after the opponent shot the arrow, there is just no way the heroes arrow can reach his opponent before his opponents arrow reaches him. Some actions can be interrupted, other's can't, just use some plain logic and common sense here....

 

[Hjorimir]

Every adventurer is always readying when moving through a hostile dungeon. That's the default assumption. Many monsters in the dungeon are also constantly readying. What happens when both groups meet?

Exactly, you roll initiative!

What happens when one group is readying while the other's aren't?

Exactly, the readying group gets a surprise round.....



Not only where the heroes readying, the orcs too! Guess what happens now: you roll initiative, generally causing the fastest characters to go first!

Initiative is a way to break the circle of everyone readying. If a combat occurs where everybody is readying or delaying, I will declare combat over, and will ask for new initiative if anyone wants to break the readying stalemate.

You should use common sense to determine if a readied action can interrupt something. Suppose: a hero sees his opponent turn invisible, and readies to shoot an arrow at him if he becomes visible again. His opponent shoots an arrow at the hero. Some players seem to think that they can interrupt the invisible shooter, possible killing him before he launches the arrow. But logically, if they do, the invisible shooter never attacked, and thus never became visible, and never triggered the ready action. If they act after the opponent shot the arrow, there is just no way the heroes arrow can reach his opponent before his opponents arrow reaches him. Some actions can be interrupted, other's can't, just use some plain logic and common sense here....

So by this logic, the orcs our outside beating on the doors. Initiative is rolled. Irrespective of who wins the heroes each have the opportunity to go onto a ready as the orcs continue to beat upon the door. The ready, fire an arrow as soon as I have a shot. The end result is the same; the orcs have no way of opening the doors and closing prior to the guys covering the doors taking their shots.

That works fine for me.

 

[Rel]

So by this logic, the orcs our outside beating on the doors. Initiative is rolled. Irrespective of who wins the heroes each have the opportunity to go onto a ready as the orcs continue to beat upon the door. The ready, fire an arrow as soon as I have a shot. The end result is the same; the orcs have no way of opening the doors and closing prior to the guys covering the doors taking their shots.

That works fine for me.

I like your interpretation. Combat doesn't necessarily begin when the two groups can attack each other directly. It begins when the Orcs make their first Sunder attempt on the door. Otherwise how do you track how many HP the door has left before breaking?

 

[Hjorimir]

 

[ForceUser]

So by this logic, the orcs our outside beating on the doors. Initiative is rolled. Irrespective of who wins the heroes each have the opportunity to go onto a ready as the orcs continue to beat upon the door. The ready, fire an arrow as soon as I have a shot. The end result is the same; the orcs have no way of opening the doors and closing prior to the guys covering the doors taking their shots.

That works fine for me.

I'd certainly argue that initiative is rolled as soon as each group is aware of the other. In the LotR example, the orcs converge on the room with the heroes in it, who are well aware that a horde of orcs is enroute, thanks to Merry's blunder. Once the horde is heard outside, both groups are aware of the other, and initiative is rolled. There is no surprise round. Boromir peeks through the door at the approaching horde (a Spot check) and declares: "They have a cave troll." The heroes then immediately bar the door (taking one or two rounds to do so), which means that the orcs must hack through it. The heroes ready actions to fire as soon as they see orcs through the portal; the door splinters, they unload their arrows through the gap. Their place in the initiative order is adjusted accordingly. The orcs bust through (each taking an action), then close with the heroes (taking their other action). The heroes drop their bows (a free), draw their swords (a move), and start chopping up orcs (a standard). Makes sense to me, and all within the RAW.