Ready a charge?

0-hr

Starship Cartographer
Is it possible to ready a charge in 3.5?


It says "If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge" and "You can ready a standard action, a move action, or a free action.".

Still, I'm not posative that voluntarily restricting yourself fullfills the requirements of being limited to only a standard action. Lacking further proof, I would have to assume that it does - but it's hard to believe that WotC would leave all those readied charge problems in the new version of the rules without some clarification. :rolleyes:
 

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Hot to fix the Charge action

Here is the content of a letter I sent to WotC. They are considering it, but I am not really expecting anything from them,. Still, one never knows. Also, you may allow a "readied charge" if you want - it a rather generous readiong of the rules to do so, but legitimate. I could go into a long discussion of how it is a legitimate reading of the rules, but its rather hyper-technical and I'm not sure how valuable it would be to do so.

The Charge action has a few problems with it, and the published errata take the wrong approach. I’ll give the bottom line of how to fix it first, and then explain why it should be fixed this way.

The four changes that are actually needed to fix the Charge action are:

1. Restore Overrun to the way it is written in the PHB.

2. Change the Charge action so that you CAN charge through allies as with any other movement (as it was in 3.0).

3. Change Ride-By Attack so that you may ignore the normal Charge rule that forces you to go to the closest space to your opponent, while preserving the "straight-line" rule and the restricted terrain rule.

4. Specifically allow a "Readied" Charge action, but make it clear that the single move action allowed with that Charge would be the total movement allowed in the round.

Here is why:

For items (1) and (2) above: As published in the 3.5 PHB, an enemy could avoid your charge if you used the Overrun action, but an ally could not. Errata were published to "fix" this by disallowing the Overrun action when charging.

This ruling severely handicaps Charge as a legitimate tactic. The Trample feat becomes useless if you cannot overrun as part of a Charge. On the other hand, if you could Overrun as part of a Charge, then you have the problem of why can't allies move when opponents can? So either Overrun is allowed or Trample is disallowed as a feat. The obvious, simpler, more consistent choice is to allow Overrun as written.

For item (3) above: Ride-By Attack is also nearly impossible. The Ride-By Attack feat needs to allow one to actually ride-by your opponent instead of charging up to the nearest square, which would, in most cases, prevent the Ride-By Attack from happening. Either the Ride-By Attack feat needs to be eliminated or slightly changed to specifically allow one to actually ride-by the opponent charged. The latter is the more obvious, simpler, more consistent choice.

For item (4) above: You do not seem to be able to Ready a Charge any more (except with a bit of a creative interpretation). This is too severe a restriction on a legitimate tactic form 3.0e. The easiest fix to this to avoid the 3.0 abuse of this tactic is to simply require that a Readied Charge uses up all movement for the round

It may be that some feel that mounted charges were too effective and thus unbalancing, but several years of experience with a paladin who always has his flying mount (a small paladin with a half-celestial war dog) makes it clear that such a character still does not do better in combat than a straight fighter or a barbarian. In certain situations he does better in melee, in others he does worse. Strictly following the published errata (no Overrrun) together with the "closest space" rule makes this type of character nowhere near as good in melee as any other PC designed for melee.

Well, there you have it. That's how I think Charge should work to be more consistent with all the other 3.5 rules.
 

Wow, thanks for the great response. Is there a concise way for me to explain to my players why it's NOT allowed to ready a charge?
 

Ki Ryn said:
Wow, thanks for the great response. Is there a concise way for me to explain to my players why it's NOT allowed to ready a charge?

Sure.

Ready is a Standard Action.

Therefore, you can take a Move Action in the same round you Ready an action.

Therefore, in a round that you Ready an action, you are not restricted to a Standard Action or a Move Action - you could, if you chose, do both.

Therefore, you are not able to Charge as a Standard Action, only as a Full Round Action.

You cannot Ready a Full Round Action.

Therefore, you cannot Ready a Charge.

(Unless you're a Zombie.)

-Hyp.
 

Hypersmurf said:
Sure.

Ready is a Standard Action.

Therefore, you can take a Move Action in the same round you Ready an action.

Therefore, in a round that you Ready an action, you are not restricted to a Standard Action or a Move Action - you could, if you chose, do both.

Therefore, you are not able to Charge as a Standard Action, only as a Full Round Action.

Here is where your logic breaks.

You cannot Ready a Full Round Action.

Therefore, you cannot Ready a Charge.

If a zombie cn do it, anyone can. It is possible to make a "partial action" charge, as the PHB explanes in the description of charge; you move only up to a standard move (not a double). The language of charge already spells out that no other movement is allowed prior to making a charge. Readying an action would not release you from that restriction on making a charge. Therefore, as long as you have made not other movement prior to the readied charge, you can make a charge as a readied action.
 

Pagan priest said:
Here is where your logic breaks.

If a zombie cn do it, anyone can. It is possible to make a "partial action" charge, as the PHB explanes in the description of charge; you move only up to a standard move (not a double). The language of charge already spells out that no other movement is allowed prior to making a charge. Readying an action would not release you from that restriction on making a charge. Therefore, as long as you have made not other movement prior to the readied charge, you can make a charge as a readied action.
I believe that Hyp, as usual, is right. You're thinking 3.0, where a partial charge could be made using a partial action. In 3.5 you can only perform a "partial action" if your turn has been curtailed for some reason (Slow spell, staggered, being a zombie). Choosing not to use a move action is not the same as not having one.
 

Pagan priest said:
It is possible to make a "partial action" charge, as the PHB explanes in the description of charge.

Not in 3.5.

Unless you are restricted to a standard or move action.

A zombie is so restricted; a normal human is not.

Except in the surprise round, or if he's Slowed, or certain other unusual conditions.

But in general, most creatures are not restricted to a standard or move action, and thus "Charge" is a Full Round Action, and cannot be Readied.

-Hyp.
 

Hypersmurf said:
...But in general, most creatures are not restricted to a standard or move action, and thus "Charge" is a Full Round Action, and cannot be Readied.

-Hyp.
Correct. The argument on the other side is rather hyper-technical, but it goes like this:

The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun...

Therefore, if you Ready an action, your turn is over.

move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn.

Well, since your turn is over, when you actually get to act on your new turn, which happens before your next turn, (that is, the trigger for Ready happens), you are indeed restricted to a standard action or a move action on your turn. Therefore you should be able to Ready a Charge.

This same sort of hyper-technical argument could be used to justify the ability to Move, Ready, then Charge. This has proven to be a bad idea and should not be allowed. However, as I explained above, the ability to Ready a Charge should, indeed, be allowed.

The re-writing of these rules was somewhat less than precise, so you could rule either way without feeling like it was a House Rule.
 

I'd allow it. I'd even allow movement before and after, but the charge is your standard action in both rounds. To wit: Tordek (Init 9) moves 15 ft, then readies to charge "when the zombie comes within 30 ft." The zombie (Init 3) moves toward him immediately after, and he charges the zmobie, and hits. When Tordek's next Init comes up (just before the zombie on Init 3), he has only a move action to spend.

But, no, it's just a house rule in keeping with the spirit, IMO, of DnD; it misses the rules as written by a mile.
 

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