Ready action and Cloud of Daggers

[Sunglare]

Just got done with a session I am DMing and the wizard in the group ready a action for a creature to come into sight. When it did the wizard cast Cloud of daggers. i ruled since the creature already had the start of it's turn it would not be taking the wisdom damage the round the wizard cast the spell. Now since it was a ready action the wizard goes before the creature so that means his cloud of daggers will be gone before it comes around to the creatures turn again, so in conclusion if a wizard cast cloud of daggers with a ready action the creature it is on will never take the wisdom damage.

Is this correct or am I missing something in the ready action area and zone spells?

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

That sounds pretty much right.

Doing interupt actions can lead to some wierd results given the way it reorders characters and monsters.

Another consequence, incidentally (though this isn't due to the reordering) is that if the wizard hits the monster for ongoing damage during the monster's turn, the monster has a chance to save against the effect at the end of its turn (that being the same turn it was hit) and thus never take any ongoing damage.

 

[blargney the second]

This is why I almost never ready actions to trigger based on enemies' actions. I set them to go off based on what my allies do! (I love readying a Warlord's Favor for when a rogue moves into a flank with me.)
-blarg

 

[KarinsDad]

Another consequence, incidentally (though this isn't due to the reordering) is that if the wizard hits the monster for ongoing damage during the monster's turn, the monster has a chance to save against the effect at the end of its turn (that being the same turn it was hit) and thus never take any ongoing damage.

The OP's example and this example are good reasons to have a special Readying action house rule that Readying resets the start of the triggering creature's turn (only with regard to the Readied action, not anything else). In other words, it's as if the Readying creature performed his action completely before the action of the creature getting interrupted.

The problem here is that 3E Readying was shoehorned pretty much as is into 4E.

But, 4E is a game with start of turn and end of turn consequences that 3E did not have.

Hence, Readying should be adjusted to work smoothly with 4E. As is, it's a bit klunky.

 

[MarkB]

Another consequence, incidentally (though this isn't due to the reordering) is that if the wizard hits the monster for ongoing damage during the monster's turn, the monster has a chance to save against the effect at the end of its turn (that being the same turn it was hit) and thus never take any ongoing damage.

I've seen that happen a time or two.

One house rule I'm considering is that a character is not considered subject to ongoing damage until it has been affected by that damage at least once - so a creature can't make its end-of-turn save until it's been hit by the start-of-turn effect at least once.

I would probably still allow extra saves granted by powers or Heal checks to be effective, though.

 

[Maldor]

would he not of taken damage for moveing into the zone if it was when he came in sight then the first square of movement is the trigger. Zone goes up. Monster moves second square and takes damage inless he stopped after the first square of movement when he came into sight.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I've seen that happen a time or two.

It came up in our game on Sunday - the Paladin was bitten on an OA, and had ongoing poison damage inflicted... but it was his turn, and at the end of it he saved.

The poison never had an effect.

-Hyp.

 

[MarkB]

would he not of taken damage for moveing into the zone if it was when he came in sight then the first square of movement is the trigger. Zone goes up. Monster moves second square and takes damage inless he stopped after the first square of movement when he came into sight.

Readied actions are reactions, not interrupts.

Either the wizard targets the square the monster has just stepped into in order to enter line of sight, in which case the monster is already there and can't take damage for entering the square, or the wizard targets the square he thinks the monster will next step into, in which case he can't do the initial 'hit' damage to the monster, and it can choose to go around the dagger-filled square, or simply end its movement before reaching it if there isn't an alternative path.

 

[Sunglare]

The OP's example and this example are good reasons to have a special Readying action house rule that Readying resets the start of the triggering creature's turn (only with regard to the Readied action, not anything else). In other words, it's as if the Readying creature performed his action completely before the action of the creature getting interrupted.

The problem here is that 3E Readying was shoehorned pretty much as is into 4E.

But, 4E is a game with start of turn and end of turn consequences that 3E did not have.

Hence, Readying should be adjusted to work smoothly with 4E. As is, it's a bit klunky.

I just had a thought on this and see potention exploiting. There would be no reason for a wizard to never ready an action with. Take freezing cloud, The wizard desides to ready to cast Freezing cloud as soon as the creatures move 1 square. He cast his spell now the wizard is rolling 2 attacks on each creature potentionally doing 2d8+intx2 on 1 turn. Any class can do this with similar effects. It becomes to powerful to ready actions. Cloud of daggers would instanly get the automatic wisdom instanly. THere would be very few cases for the wizard not to ready an action.
This would also make high level dispells less useful against zones since the wizard got the full use of his zone instanly he doesn't need to worry about his zone getting dispelled.

My solution, If an immediate action is used to lay down an effect that cause damage/effect at the start of the creatures next turn it instead takes effect right before the end of the wizards next turn right before the wizards spell shuts off.
As for damage at start (save end) effects caused by immediate actions, the creature does not make a save until it has suffered from the effect at least once.