Ready and an Arm

[Janos Audron]

A Wizard has readied an action: "When I see a spectre."

The Specter has seen the Wizard, watched for half a minute and saw that the Wizard didn't move. So the spectre went under the square the Wizard was in and started attacking the Wizard.

The first time the spectre missed (50% for attacking blindly). When, in this case, does the -20 penalty to hide apply? Before attacking or after attacking?

The second time the spectre hit. Does this immediately trigger the readied action?

When a spectre attacks through the floor and triggers a readied action, can you target the spectre with a spell?

And is there any difference in the way 3.0 and 3.5 deal with this situation?

 

[frankthedm]

A Wizard has readied an action: "When I see a specter

well #1 thats not a valid readied action by most standards. The player needs to be more specfic on what action will be taken on the ready

the player should get a spot check at the time of specter's attack with the -20 penalty applied to the specter's hide roll.

HIDE (DEX; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)
Check: Your Hide check is opposed by the Spot check of anyone who might see you. You can move up to one-half your normal speed and hide at no penalty. When moving at a speed greater than one-half but less than your normal speed, you take a –5 penalty. It’s practically impossible (–20 penalty) to hide while attacking, running or charging.
A creature larger or smaller than Medium takes a size bonus or penalty on Hide checks depending on its size category: Fine +16, Diminutive +12, Tiny +8, Small +4, Large –4, Huge –8, Gargantuan –12, Colossal –16.
You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check. Total cover or total concealment usually (but not always; see Special, below) obviates the need for a Hide check, since nothing can see you anyway.
If people are observing you, even casually, you can’t hide. You can run around a corner or behind cover so that you’re out of sight and then hide, but the others then know at least where you went.
If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check; see below), though, you can attempt to hide. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Hide check if you can get to a hiding place of some kind. (As a general guideline, the hiding place has to be within 1 foot per rank you have in Hide.) This check, however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast.
Sniping: If you’ve already successfully hidden at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack, then immediately hide again. You take a –20 penalty on your Hide check to conceal yourself after the shot.
Creating a Diversion to Hide: You can use Bluff to help you hide. A successful Bluff check can give you the momentary diversion you need to attempt a Hide check while people are aware of you.
Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Hide check as part of movement, so it doesn’t take a separate action. However, hiding immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.
Special: If you are invisible, you gain a +40 bonus on Hide checks if you are immobile, or a +20 bonus on Hide checks if you’re moving.
If you have the Stealthy feat, you get a +2 bonus on Hide checks.
A 13th-level ranger can attempt a Hide check in any sort of natural terrain, even if it doesn’t grant cover or concealment. A 17th level ranger can do this even while being observed.


If the player 'spots' the specter, i would allow a targeted spell since the creature is there enough to spot or target. Now since i view spells as taking a bit of time to cast, i would require the player to pick the spell to be used at the time of ready.

 

[Janos Audron]

What's the bonus on your hide check if only your arm is visible?

And sniping works, as I read it, as follows:

You shoot (success), you hide (-20).

In case of the spectre: He hits (success), and hides (but after his hit, he's under the ground again, so he can't be spotted anyway).

My only doubt is if a spectre can use the 'sniping' option, since it's a melee touch attack...

 

[RigaMortus]

What is the point in the specter hiding if he is just going to be inside the floor anyway?

 

[Janos Audron]

If the attack goes off before the -20 on hide, then there is a good chance the PC fails the opposed roll and he doesn't get his readied action...

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

A simple note/question:

The undead is effectively blind while in the stone. He travels in the stone to a spot directly under the wizard. How is he going to know he's under the wizard? Is this undead particularly good with distances?

AR

 

[JiffyPopTart]

If the PC knows a spectre is about, and is ready to launch a spell/arrow/sword/whatever at it as soon as it apprears, I think its kind of a cheesy tactic to not let them. Even if its just an arm popping out of the floor.

Do you want the PC's to have to grab picks and dig a hole in the floor to be able to attack it?

DS

 

[Janos Audron]

A simple note/question:

The undead is effectively blind while in the stone. He travels in the stone to a spot directly under the wizard. How is he going to know he's under the wizard? Is this undead particularly good with distances?

AR

It's the endless debate about 'wizard placing fireballs in such a way that they hit all the enemies and none of the allies'. I'm on the side that says: "Wizards can place their fireballs exact, fighters can charge exact and so my undead can count squares as well.

If the PC knows a spectre is about, and is ready to launch a spell/arrow/sword/whatever at it as soon as it apprears, I think its kind of a cheesy tactic to not let them. Even if its just an arm popping out of the floor.

Do you want the PC's to have to grab picks and dig a hole in the floor to be able to attack it?

DS

Actually I expect them to fly / levitated / get off the ground / surprise me with something clever.

He wanted to launch a spell at it. Don't you think it's kinda cheesy that he can cast a spell before the arm is back in the ground? All the spectre needs to do is touch him...

I don't care about cheesy tactics, I wanna know what the rules say... And besides, this might come in handy for future characters/npc's with the tremorsense/blindsight spell...

 

[drnuncheon]

He wanted to launch a spell at it. Don't you think it's kinda cheesy that he can cast a spell before the arm is back in the ground? All the spectre needs to do is touch him...

Errr...no? He's spending an action to be able to interrupt the spectre. If the spectre doesn't attack him, he's wasted a turn that he could have spent doing something else. Don't you think it's kind of cheesy to have the spectre be able to attack without being vulnerable in any way itself?

Anyway, as per the rules, the spectre is not Hiding at all - instead, he has total cover and concealment from the floor. (They know where the spectre is as soon as it makes the attack - it's right under the wizard!)

When it is attacking the wizard, I would give it cover (based on how much is still 'submerged') but no concealment. The cover bonus to AC and reflex saves should be sufficient to mdel the spectre's attempt to pull the arm back in after itself. Unlike normal cover situations, the wizard would get no cover from the intervening floor because the spectre can attack right through it.

J

 

[RigaMortus]

So you are allowing the specter to move through stone freely, and not be subject to blindness? Well I hope you are at least giving him a 50% miss chance to hit the Wizard then, since only his arm is popping out of the stone, and his head is still in the floor.