'Realistic' Ability Scores - Distribution, Mean and Variance/SD

[Roman]

This is a follow on thread to my previous thread entitled 'Realistic' Arrangement of Ability Scores. The old thread can be found here: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=91657


I would like to ask two related questions:


1) What do you think are the parameters of variation (perhaps the 'mean', type of distribution [binomial, normal, other] and 'standard deviation' - or whatever other parameters of variation you can think of) of these 'ability scores' in the real general population? (Yeah, I know for some ability scores this is basically impossible to determine, but for some it is possible.)

Here is an example to illustrate what I am looking for:

Say we look at Strength/Power (or whatever you want to call it). Strength is measured reasonably well by how much a person can lift. So... is the weight lifted represented well by say a normal distribution? What is the mean weight lifted? What is the standard deviation? I am sure someone must have done studies on something like this (not for RPGs, but for legitimate scientific reasons).


2) What are the correlations between these 'ability scores' IRL?



The answers to these questions are probably beyond the knowledge of most posters (well, at the very least they are certainly beyond my knowledge!), but if anybody knows anything about the matter or has any interesting links that could shed light on it, I would appreciate it greatly.



NOTE: IRL people obviosly do not actually have 'ability scores' - when using the term we are obviously only speaking of a model. I know that this is obvious - I am just covering my bases in case someone wants to accuse me of 'reducing people to numbers and statistics'. That should not be a problem with people on this board, but better to be safe than sorry.

 

[Thanee]

Erm... are you looking for distributions of "attributes" among the real life population?

For example, 1% of people have a Str of 18, 3% a Str of 17, 5% a Str of 16?

Then... forget it!

Many of those can be instrumentalised in some way, sure, but I doubt there is any statistic, which is even halfway representative for what constitutes an attribute. Mental attributes cannot be measured to full degree by our technical abilities today. There are intelligence tests, but they all only measure a minimal part of what constitutes intelligence and so have no real value beyond that. Wisdom? Charisma? How do you want to measure those?

Or did you mean something else, maybe?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Roman]

Erm... are you looking for distributions of "attributes" among the real life population?

Well with the usual qualifiers that humans cannot be reduced to numbers and statistics...

For example, 1% of people have a Str of 18, 3% a Str of 17, 5% a Str of 16?

Then... forget it!

No, this is definitely not what I am looking for. What I am looking for is statistical information on what proportion of the population can for example lift 100 kg above their head, what proportion can lift 80 kg, etc... or this percentage of the population can run 2 kilometers at speed x, this percentage can run 3 kilometers etc... I am looking for statistical distributions of measurable human variables along those lines - no need to translate them into any stat.

Many of those can be instrumentalised in some way, sure, but I doubt there is any statistic, which is even halfway representative for what constitutes an attribute.

Indeed - see my explanation above - sorry I was not clear initially.

The various answers in my preceding thread about how 'attributes' could be realistically arranged might provide some insporation as to what measurable characteristics to look for. It definitely would not work for D&D statistics.

Mental attributes cannot be measured to full degree by our technical abilities today. There are intelligence tests, but they all only measure a minimal part of what constitutes intelligence and so have no real value beyond that. Wisdom? Charisma? How do you want to measure those?

If something cannot be measured - ignore it for the purposes of this thread.

Or did you mean something else, maybe?

Yes indeed I did - I think I explained it more clearly now, but if not, I will be happy to elaborat further.

 

[Treebore]

I am probably saying this totally out of context since i didn't read any of your other thread, but why worry about realistic attributes in a fantasy game?

 

[nikolai]

No, this is definitely not what I am looking for. What I am looking for is statistical information on what proportion of the population can for example lift 100 kg above their head, what proportion can lift 80 kg, etc... or this percentage of the population can run 2 kilometers at speed x, this percentage can run 3 kilometers etc... I am looking for statistical distributions of measurable human variables along those lines - no need to translate them into any stat.

The problem with this is what you mean by population. The population of some places is very different to that of others, just in terms of basic stuff like ages and sex distributions. If you look at more subtle differences then things get even more complex. There's no universal yardstick you can use to compare them; the distributions you are looking for will be very different depending on which populations you measure. And that's forgetting the difficulties of actually doing the measuring. I see what you're trying to achieve, but don't think there's much chance of any success.

 

[Roman]

The problem with this is what you mean by population. The population of some places is very different to that of others, just in terms of basic stuff like ages and sex distributions. If you look at more subtle differences then things get even more complex. There's no universal yardstick you can use to compare them; the distributions you are looking for will be very different depending on which populations you measure. And that's forgetting the difficulties of actually doing the measuring. I see what you're trying to achieve, but don't think there's much chance of any success.

Agreed - any statistics for any population you give me will be more than welcome though.

Someone must have done studies on the relative distribution of how far for example adult men (or women or both) can run at a given speed or similar variables. I simply cannot imagine that some scientists would not be interested in that kind of information if for nothing else than for the purposes of sports and the military as well as medicine and sheer curiosity.

 

[Roman]

I am probably saying this totally out of context since i didn't read any of your other thread, but why worry about realistic attributes in a fantasy game?

Yeah, I explained it in my other thread...

 

[Roman]

I am probably saying this totally out of context since i didn't read any of your other thread, but why worry about realistic attributes in a fantasy game?

Yeah, I explained it in my other thread...

To summarize, I simply find it interesting and fun to research and talk about.

 

[Thanee]

What you replied above is basically what I meant. Of course not for D&D attributes (Str was just picked as an example, since you used that in your initial post), altho something similar is obviously the goal.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Dogbrain]

During the American Civil War, the US Army did extensive physical testing of their recruits. Unfortunately, beyond knowing that this was done and published, I've no more information.

In a low-tech game context, this study would be very useful, since at that time, the majority of recruits were from farms or small towns.