'Realistic' Arrangement of Ability Scores

[mmadsen]

Instead of dexterity there should be 'fine motor control' and 'gross motor control' (these correspond to approximately manual dexterity/hand-eye coordination and balance/agility).

Agility, in real life, is a function of both coordination and relative power -- what we might call Dexterity and Strength. A gymnast or running back isn't simply coordinated; an athlete needs significant muscularity to accelerate, decelerate, jump, change directions, etc.

I would perhaps add 'flexibility' as a third stat to help replace dexterity.

Why?

I wonder where would you put reaction time? Would that be a function of perception or balance/agility or separate altogether?

If you're trying to dodge a fireball, you need to perceive the fireball as soon as possible (probably quite easy; it's a fireball after all), then move out of the blast radius as quickly as possible (probably not so easy) -- a test of perception combined with a test of agility.

Interestingly, I remember an experiment that pitted Wall Street traders versus military recruits in paintball, and the traders, used to rapidly taking in large amounts of information and acting on it quickly, devestated the young, fit opposition. Powers of perception conquered agility.

Naturally, I'd base Initiative on Perception, not Agility -- especially when the task is to point a firearm, not jump behind cover.

 

[mmadsen]

I would not include an attractiveness type stat because frankly beauity is in the eye of the beholder, pun aside. What one one culture/race would considder attractive, another culture/race would considder a flaw.

In the real world, humans from across cultures largely agree on who's attractive and who isn't. In a fantasy world of many species ("races") this pattern may or may not hold.

 

[fuindordm]

Except that Strength, Constitution, and Body should generally share the same score.

Why is that a problem?

Sounds like we've got a Gurps player on our hands...

Thanee already answered for me. D&D character creation assumes all characteristics
have roughly equal weight in the game. If you want to drastically subdivide the
characteristics then some will be only occasionally useful to any character, and
will become universal dump stats.

Didn't it hurt in 1st edition to roll your only 18 on Comelieness?

Manual dexterity, for example, would boost a few skills but have little effect
on a character's combat effectiveness--dump stat for all but rogues specializing
in locks and traps, I would think.

Now, it's true that IRL strength and size are highly correlated. Neither one, however,
is strongly correlated with health/endurance. The kinds of exercise that make you
strong don't really build up your endurance, and vice versa.

--Ben

 

[dagger]

Ok here is another post from me that does not really add anything to this discussion.

Rolemaster has 8-10 stats, if I was at home id post them.

 

[Aaron2]

Back in the 90's I was kicking around the idea for a game that had no set ability scores. Everyone was assumed to be average. Instead you had things, similar to feats, that you could add. Each of these feats would give you various bonuses. So, you could pick the feat "Strong" which would give you a bonus to damage. Or, you might pick the feat "Big" which would give you bonuses to damage and hit points but a penalty to AC. This way each character could determine what he's good at without worrying about if he want to be good at one thing and bad at another thing that are both covered by the same ability score. For example, he could move quickly and gracefully but, because he's so wired, he can't hold his hands still; kinda like Dex that doesn't apply to things like Open Locks.


Aaron

 

[mmadsen]

Rolemaster has 8-10 stats, if I was at home id post them.

I'm not near my old Rolemaster books either, but a quick web search revealed this list:

Strength
Agility
Quickness
Constitution
Memory
Reasoning
Empathy
Self-Discipline
Intuition
Presence

 

[apsuman]

Back in the 80's Mayfair games made a superhero RPG licensed with the DC universe. They had the following : Physical Stats, Mental Stats, and Spiritual Stats, and each one of them had three categories, the action stat, the force stat, and the resister stat.

So for physical stats it was:
DEX STR BODY
Mental stats:
INT WIS(?) MIND
Spiritual Stats:
AURA CHA(???) SPIRIT

The stats all worked the same way. The action stat displayed how fast you were able to react to events, the force statdescribed how forceful you reaction was, and the resister stat explained how much you resisted any effort against you.

When ever possible, results were determined by opposed rolls. To determine if you hit him your DEX + your roll was compared to his DEX (+roll ?). If you were in a bout of str (wrestling, tug o war, etc) you STR + your roll compared to his STR(+ his roll ?) determined the result. If you hit him, you STR was compared to his BODY score. The higher the BODY score the less relative effectiveness of a STR. For example, a STR of 8 Hits a person with a BODY of 10 --> look up on a table, the attacker does 1 point of damage, so the defender has 1 HP less, but he still resists with a BODY score of 10.


I really liked the system.

 

[Ferret]

Nothing to chime in on different stats, but what about stat synergy? Strength and con are related but not the same, same with wis and cha (Willpower and force of personality)

 

[silentspace]

Everyone seems to lump strength and constitution together but keep dexterity separate. I think that's true if by dexterity you mean 'weak' But if by dexterity you mean coordinated, you'll find that athletes at every level, from high school to pro, have relatively high scores in all three. You will find the odd exception here and there: the power lifter (focus on strength), the marathon runner (focus on endurance), and the ping-pong player (focus on dexterity), but in most athletics all three are required in roughly equal amounts.

 

[silentspace]

Also, as to the whole size/strength/constitution (toughness)/power issue...

Has anyone boxed? Or is anyone a boxing fan? If you are, you'll know that size/strength/toughness does not equate to power. If you really had to break it down into game components, it would be more like strength + coordination, with a smaller factor for size, that adds up to power.