This guy I've recently started playing with uses Hellish Rebuke, then on his next round he uses his pact blade to "cut himself for 1 point of damage" as a minor action. He claims this triggers Hellish Rebuke, as the text reads "if you take damage before the end of your next turn, the target takes another 1d6+Con mod damage." Does this fall into the bag 'o' rats section of rules or is there something that prevents this? Just seems pretty ridiculous to me.
Really Dumb Hellish Rebuke Question
- Thread starter Krensus
- Start date
Hmm that sounds a lil cheesy to me. I play a warlock as well and the way I use hellish rebuke is:
curse
attack w/ hellish rebuke
and move adj to my target and move a square away provoking an opportunity attack so he hits me thus making him take damage.
with an 18 con (+4)
the enemy takes 3d6+8 dmg (if he succeeded in hitting me) for an at-will ability.
I love doing this especially if I got temp HP. Combine this with Armor of agathys and add one more d6+mod dmg for an at-will LOL. so like 4d6+12 for the enc with an at will if the enemy is hitting you.
As far as the pact blade goes... Cutting yourself is a standard action, hell if the blood mage can do it, why not. I'd say he should roll the dmg. 1d4+ enhancement+ str mod dmg. And as far as rolling to hit himseelf is just retrded.
curse
attack w/ hellish rebuke
and move adj to my target and move a square away provoking an opportunity attack so he hits me thus making him take damage.
with an 18 con (+4)
the enemy takes 3d6+8 dmg (if he succeeded in hitting me) for an at-will ability.
I love doing this especially if I got temp HP. Combine this with Armor of agathys and add one more d6+mod dmg for an at-will LOL. so like 4d6+12 for the enc with an at will if the enemy is hitting you.
As far as the pact blade goes... Cutting yourself is a standard action, hell if the blood mage can do it, why not. I'd say he should roll the dmg. 1d4+ enhancement+ str mod dmg. And as far as rolling to hit himseelf is just retrded.
On Puget Sound
First Post
I had two simultaneous reactions to this:
CHEESY - disallow it, and
AWESOME - someone with ties to a sinister other plane sacrifices his own blood to damage his foes. Very picturesque.
How do you keep the awesome while disallowing the cheese? "The diabolic forces/ voices from beyond the stars/ fey spirits in your head whisper 'YESSSS! MORE!' as you prick your thumb. You look at your hand in mixed horror and excitement as, of its own volition, it cuts deeper. Instead of taking 1 point, roll your normal basic attack damage, including all modifiers." Being a warlock occasionally has its price, you know. And the damage will still be light enough that he'll be tempted to use this tactic occasionally, but not every round. (It will still be cheesy with Armor of Agathys, but what the heck, that's a daily).
CHEESY - disallow it, and
AWESOME - someone with ties to a sinister other plane sacrifices his own blood to damage his foes. Very picturesque.
How do you keep the awesome while disallowing the cheese? "The diabolic forces/ voices from beyond the stars/ fey spirits in your head whisper 'YESSSS! MORE!' as you prick your thumb. You look at your hand in mixed horror and excitement as, of its own volition, it cuts deeper. Instead of taking 1 point, roll your normal basic attack damage, including all modifiers." Being a warlock occasionally has its price, you know. And the damage will still be light enough that he'll be tempted to use this tactic occasionally, but not every round. (It will still be cheesy with Armor of Agathys, but what the heck, that's a daily).
aurance
Explorer
We could discuss again such things as "what action is it to damage yourself?" and "do you consider yourself a legitimate target for your attacks?", but in reality what it comes down to is, what is acceptable for your DM and your group?
There is no clear answer in the RAW as far as I've seen this issue discussed, and it's not likely to break the game either way it's ruled. So go with your DM and/or group decision.
There is no clear answer in the RAW as far as I've seen this issue discussed, and it's not likely to break the game either way it's ruled. So go with your DM and/or group decision.
What Riven and Puget Sound said. Standard action. Either standard basic attack damage, or 1d10 damage as for the Blood Mage's minor wound.
The bag o' rats clause isn't needed here because the power mentions nothing about attacks or enemies, only "when you take damage", which he has done and which weakens him just as an enemy's damage would (but he should take a similar amount of damage to what an enemy could deal).
The bag o' rats clause isn't needed here because the power mentions nothing about attacks or enemies, only "when you take damage", which he has done and which weakens him just as an enemy's damage would (but he should take a similar amount of damage to what an enemy could deal).
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Agreed it should be a standard action, roll damage with all modifiers.
With your tactic of moving in and provoking an opportunity attack, remember that the monster is not forced to make an OP and is fully aware of all conditions on him so a smart monster would not fall for this.
FireLance
Legend
However, with a bloodclaw weapon from Adventurer's Vault, there is an at-will take one point (or more) of damage free action, but you do have to make a melee attack on your turn. A high-Int warlock multiclassed with swordmage with the Intelligent Blademaster feat might be able to make good use of this combination, though.
I don't think I would allow self-inflicted damage to activate Hellish Rebuke. We already have language related to self-inflicted damage, such as with the Sacrifice to Caiphon feat. I think if the power was meant to work like your player wants, the power would mention the possibility of cutting oneself.
I believe it's meant to be something of a protective spell for the warlock. While defenders want things hitting them, strikers don't. Hellish rebuke would make something think twice about hitting you if just by doing so, they hurt themselves or their friends.
That's pretty much why it's called Hellish Rebuke. You rebuke the enemy for daring to hit you.
By the RAW, yeah, maybe it works. But by the RAI, I don't think it does.
I believe it's meant to be something of a protective spell for the warlock. While defenders want things hitting them, strikers don't. Hellish rebuke would make something think twice about hitting you if just by doing so, they hurt themselves or their friends.
That's pretty much why it's called Hellish Rebuke. You rebuke the enemy for daring to hit you.
By the RAW, yeah, maybe it works. But by the RAI, I don't think it does.
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gtoasnt3
First Post
Descriptor of the power: You point your finger, and your foe is scoured in hellish flames stoked by your own anger and pain. If you are injured, the flames burst into life one more time before they fade away.
I guess that I wouldn't allow the self inflicted act since the power is described as "stoked by your own anger and pain". Yes, nothing in the RAW keeps you from damaging yourself, but I'd agree with everyone that I'd make it a STD action. I understand the bloodclaw weapon power as drawing the blood from you by the hilt as a free action not as a cut yourself action. If a Warlock continues to cut himself in battle, is that enough to cause anger and pain? I think it's a bit masochistic (sp?), and he/she may start to enjoy it. LOL
I guess that I wouldn't allow the self inflicted act since the power is described as "stoked by your own anger and pain". Yes, nothing in the RAW keeps you from damaging yourself, but I'd agree with everyone that I'd make it a STD action. I understand the bloodclaw weapon power as drawing the blood from you by the hilt as a free action not as a cut yourself action. If a Warlock continues to cut himself in battle, is that enough to cause anger and pain? I think it's a bit masochistic (sp?), and he/she may start to enjoy it. LOL
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