Reasonable Encounter against 100 enemies. Not possible?

[Shin Okada]

If there are 100 monsters, EL = CR + 13 (approx.). And sanity GM should not put an overpowering encounter (EL = 5+ higher than party level) unless he intentionally let PCs lose. But a character cannot get experience points from fighting against monsters who's CR is 8 or more lower than his level. So, PCs will never get xp from "reasonable" encounter against 100 enemies.

For example, 100 Orc Barbarians (1st level) = EL 14 encounter.
This is a slightly less than "overpowering" encounter against 10th-level party.
And according to the rule, 10th-level characters will never get xp from this encounter.

I have a lot of minis and wondering if "fight against 100 soldiers" concept is possible in 3e. Do you have any idea?

 

[CRGreathouse]

First, you're wrong about "no XP." The rules just say that the DM needs to look carefully at it - there's an example of "no XP" and "normal XP" for CRs 8 lower than the party's average level in the DMG.

As for running the battle, I've done such things with a large battlemap, minis for the characters, and pennies for the hordes. It's not easy, but it's doable.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Well, the EL system isn't really designed to figure out the EL of 100 orcs. The DMG specifically notes that "encounters with more than a dozen creatures are difficult to judge".

So you can't just take the doubling formula and say that 100 orcs are EL 14... a single Cloudkill could wipe most of them out.

There's a reason a creature with a CR 8 less than your party is considered insignificant.

-Hyp.

 

[AuraSeer]

The EL system breaks down for very large groups of opponents. Once the monster count is too high to be shown on the DMG encounter level chart, the idea of an EL is probably pointless.

Your 1st-level barbarians may work out to an EL 14 by the numbers, but that's inaccurate because the PCs aren't really threatened. Those barbs will require 20s to hit, and it'll take a lot of hits to drop a party member. Meanwhile the PC wizard will toast dozens of them with a single Lightning Bolt or a well-placed Cloudkill. Heck, if there's any kind of defensible position available, a Ftr12 could take on that whole army singlehanded, and expect to still be standing afterward.

 

[Galfridus]

I have a lot of minis and wondering if "fight against 100 soldiers" concept is possible in 3e. Do you have any idea?

I put my party of 5th level character up against 100 skeletons (and a barbazu)...because there was a cleric and a paladin, and the skeletons attacked in waves of 20 (1 round apart), they were able to turn nearly all of them. If it had been 100 human warriors, they would have been in big trouble.

 

[SonOfLilith]

I would love to pit my 13th lvl barb against 100, mabey even 200 goblins just to see how he would do. I think he could take it, probaly killing 12-16 a round (whirlwind + great cleave, + flamming burst dual greatsword) I think I could take it.

 

[Crothian]

I'd do this with and not worry about what the DMG says about challenges. Depending on how easy it was for the PCs, give XCP based off of that. I do that with all encounters. THe CR system is nice, but not that exact. Situation and intelligence needs to factor in, and only the DM can do that.

 

[frankthedm]

Umm don' be so sure they wont hit!

With that many foes the rules for aiding another, disarming, sundering, and grappling are gonna matter! An orc's "to hit can get pretty high

+2 from just one aid another from orc next to you (7 or better on d20)

+2 from aid another by longspear users behind attackers who are threatening PC’s with their reach (7s or better)

Tripping incurs no AOO's just counter trips when you fail so PC's will fall down.

+4 from target prone.

Once that horde surrounds you

+2 from flanking and ALOT more from MULTIPLE Aid Anothers!

And if the fighters Whirlwind then..

Long Spear users ready their aid another's for more orcs to charge in!

+2 from just charging before all those readied aid another’s

And If that Warband has a low level cleric or bard +1 to hit [moral] from bless or inspire courage.

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

The EL system breaks down for very large groups of opponents. Once the monster count is too high to be shown on the DMG encounter level chart, the idea of an EL is probably pointless.

I'm sorry, but in my experience the EL system breaks down when you sit down to play D&D.

Add in a large number of opponents and the EL system makes a post Buffy Vampire look stout.

 

[Albereth]

I'm sorry, but in my experience the EL system breaks down when you sit down to play D&D.

Add in a large number of opponents and the EL system makes a post Buffy Vampire look stout.

I have been playing 3rd Edition since it came out and I find the EL to work out just fine. The party I am in is 8th, 9th, 9th, 9th, and 10th, and the DM has been sending EL 8-11 on us. The 9th and 10 play out just about right for our group as it should.

If you are having problems with the EL not seeming to be accurate maybe it is in the makeup of the party. Remember that the CR/EL system is designed around a balanced Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Wizard party of 4 characters.