Reasons why going down the Essentials line of thinking is a mistake !!!

[Istar]

The point needs to be made again.
As I have seen nothing come out in quite some time for my Warden or Thief.

And since I have been kicked out of the other essentials thread, the one you can only say nice things about essentials in it.

Which is ironically how essentials character "Development" works.

 

[FireLance]

I don't recall reading the thread in question, but I trust the moderation on this site enough to make the following statement:

If you were kicked out of a thread, it wouldn't be because you were saying negative things about Essentials. It would be because you were saying things that were rude or insulting to other posters, or which somehow infringed the rules of this message board.

 

[Neonchameleon]

You mean you were actually serious in that other thread?

The Thief does not need any more support. It has two core books and two splat books worth of feats - it can take any rogue feats. It doesn't need more powers - it works as it is. More "support" for the thief would only reduce one of its virtues - simplicity of design.

The Warden you have more of a point with. But instead of saying you want more support, say what you want! What is the new type of Warden you want? What new forms do you want? How big is the design space there? There's only a certain number of things it's worth doing with each class. And the Barbarian is stepping into the Warden's space with Heroes of the Feywild and it's "Defender until raging" build which is going to cover a lot of concepts the warden could fill. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that (is there a "just damn strong" warden build that isn't furry or rocky?)

Now the people complaining that their runepriests or artificers aren't getting love have a point. I believe there's more to be done with the gadgeteering artificer - a pet build for one using an Iron Defender. But it's this type of support I want to see. Support involving new builds with a specific purpose. New concepts that can easily be modelled. Before Essentials there were 25 classes. Most of which had four or more basic class options before you started on powers. That's over a hundred basic concepts you have there not counting emergent ones like the Lazy Warlord. Just a generic complaint you want moar support makes me ask "for what?" Or even why you want to clutter up the game further.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

You mean you were actually serious in that other thread?

The Thief does not need any more support. It has two core books and two splat books worth of feats - it can take any rogue feats. It doesn't need more powers - it works as it is. More "support" for the thief would only reduce one of its virtues - simplicity of design.

The Warden you have more of a point with. But instead of saying you want more support, say what you want! What is the new type of Warden you want? What new forms do you want? How big is the design space there? There's only a certain number of things it's worth doing with each class. And the Barbarian is stepping into the Warden's space with Heroes of the Feywild and it's "Defender until raging" build which is going to cover a lot of concepts the warden could fill. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that (is there a "just damn strong" warden build that isn't furry or rocky?)

Maybe something Woodsy or Watery? *ponders*

 

[Neonchameleon]

Maybe something Woodsy or Watery? *ponders*

Watery would probably work (woodsy would IMO be too simmilar to Earthstrength). And now you've mentioned it there's quite an interesting watery theme that's the counterpart of the forthcoming Barbarian - slipping past defences and generally behaving as a striker until you take a Form at which point you soldify, radiate cold, and become a Defender.

 

[vagabundo]

I'm not sure who this is related to essentials? Aren't their core (non-essentials0 4e classes that's haven't received as much support as others?

And considering how many options are other there for the thief (and the compatible stuff from rogue), I'm not sure what kind of support you are looking for.

Anyway, I'd guess that their would be some stuff coming from Dragon (Kara Tur) that would be compatible with the thief.

EDIT: And I believe you were kicked from the other thread for not reading (or following the rules off ) the OP.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Thief? You mean the Essentials sub-class of that name?

 

[Istar]

I don't recall reading the thread in question, but I trust the moderation on this site enough to make the following statement:

If you were kicked out of a thread, it wouldn't be because you were saying negative things about Essentials. It would be because you were saying things that were rude or insulting to other posters, or which somehow infringed the rules of this message board.

Actually it was
As I did nothing insulting at all.

What I did do is say how I dont like essentials.
And the OP has said the thread was not to be about whether or not you liked essentials but what you did like in essentials.

But apparently that is enough.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Do you have a link to this thread?

 

[Neonchameleon]

You XPd him for it.

Essentials ruined 4e and I dont like it as its so limiting as to what you can do.
There is no creative power in them.

Okay happy !!

Mod Edit: Someone apparently didn't pay enough attention. From the OP: "This thread isn't about how Essentials ruined 4e." Let's keep this on-track, shall we?