Redesigning and re-branding EN World

[William Ronald]

I definitely have to mark that one on my calendar.

Morrus, do not let all the comments and headaches running the site get you down. The site is my favorite place on the Internet.

Also, here is an idea. Maybe every so often, have a moderator or a member do a guest column on something that is important to them or the readers. For example, Piratecat or Nemmerle could give advice on how to get published. Or you might want to ask someone to do an opinion piece on an issue related to the hobby. (As an example, the rise of fantasy and science fiction movies in the popular culture. Or perhaps ask Michael Stackpole to do one on how to combat misconceptions about gamers.)

Hang in there, Morrus. And thanks for the heads up.

 

[Kershek]

I was about to suggest something radical -- not metioning every little update to WotC's site. I mean, map-a-week, who needs to be reminded of that every other day. But actually this is probably a really important role that EN World plays, so maybe gather more input on this.

Personally, I'm very glad that he posts all the updates to WotC's site so I don't have to go visit them. Heck, I'd forget anyway. I visit the things that interest me and ignore the rest.

For Morrus:
As far as the site redesign, I believe ENWorld is comprised of three separate main entities:

Community (forums, chat, reviews, etc.)
News & Resources (dailies, conversions, archive, etc.)
Hosted sites (including shopping)

The way you currently run it, news gets top billing and everything else gets thrown into the sidebars and deeper into the site (exception: community and other items that are sprinkled into the news). By rights, you could run three separate web sites for the above and still have more content then many other places out there. I agree with you that the site needs a redesign for better access to all the crunchy bits it has to offer.

Notice I put the reviews in with the community. I think this is important, since there's a reviewing community that is separated from the rest of the site and they probably shouldn't be. Combining the reviews forum with the main forum would be a good move.

Anyways, your main home page could be a hub for all three areas, but separated evenly and in such a way that the viewer feels they are skimming the top of three very large areas. Make sure that the newest and most important info is at the top hub site to still make it enticing to visit instead of directly bookmarking things in your second level. Separate the areas on the home page as you like, but do it in a way that's easiest for you to maintain and gives the viewer an uncomplicated screen that is at most two or three screenfulls.

For instance, a third of the home page would be designated "News & Resources," where the most recent stories (only 1 day old) reside, yet it has a link at the top of its section pointing to the main "News & Resources" page with all the non-time-critical goodies. From there, you can get at all the info needed to keep the 3-levels-deep paradigm.

Another third of the home page, the Communities section, could be a listing of the most recent forum posts and reviews. Clicking on the link at the top of its section would bring you to the normal forums top folder integrated with the reviews site.

The third section of the home page would list brief updates to your hosted sites and shopping specials. Clicking the link on the top of its section would give an index and description of all hosted sites and the shopping area.

The important part would be to have all three sections at least partially visible without scrolling down.

If this sounds like more work than you do currently, keep thinking about automation. You could find a way to make your front page a reference of information on your 3 main pages inside so it's rather automatic. First of all, the communities page should be auto-updating so you don't touch it at all. The news items could be going into the news page which is referenced to it's one-third section on the enworld.org page. The same could be done for the hosted sites section.


Hopefully, you like at least a couple of ideas from this thought. My original intention was only to reply to Eric's post and suddenly I had this idea I wanted to share

I haven't read past Eric's post, which at this time is only half-way through all the posts, so I apologize if my comments are outdated.

I would love to hear opinions, Morrus.

 

[Kershek]

One other thing I would like to mention is that I would love to see a feature that allows comments for each news item (like voodooextreme.com, slashdot, etc.). Ok, so that flies in the face of my above idea of splitting community from news. phthth

 

[Hawkmoon]

I just want to make one more comment....

In regard to D20 Reviews, I need to clarify what I mean by wanting a reliable source. I don't agree with a previous poster that all reviews should be from some industry icon or other such nonsense. By reliable source is that I would like the reviews to be screened, so that we don't get PR people posing as reviewers. Limiting the reviews to industry people would severly limit the number of reviews(look at how often monte reviews something on his site as an example, and he is generally good at keeping his site updated), and then what would the criteria be? What if I published a PDF supplement in my spare time? Would that be enought to make a review, or would I need a certain amount of sales? That just turns who can review into a popularity/politcal endevor. You shouldn't have to be a successfull industry [insert title here] in order to review a product.

Hawkmoon

 

[DPGDarrin]

Morrus,

I totally think you should write editorials. I'll make no secret of the fact that I hit your page at least once a day. The first time I hit it, I just want to read the news. Is there anything new or surprising from the industry? Is there anything cool on the fan sites? Has someone said something that strikes people as interesting, funny, annoying, etc.? One piece of news I really look forward to is Monte Cook's line of site. I mean here's a bright guy who's a heck of a designer, and a well known and opinionated individual spouting off whatever strikes him as important. One thing I really like about that column is how he doesn't always stick to the industry. He comments on society, the X-files, and whatever else he wants to. Well Morrus, this is your site and your forums, so start telling us how you view the industry and the rest of the world. Other than this site, how is the world according to Morrus? What would possess someone who appears to be wholly sane to take on an insane job like this site?

Another thing is that when Eric announced that he was closing down his site, you jumped in to fill his shoes. Within weeks your old site became his old site. The color scheme changed, the amount of news changed, and the traffic went through the roof. I believe you did it for the community's sake, and maybe a bit to see where you could take it, and possibility even for the recognition. In the process I think you lost a bit of where you were going before this happened.

Evolution is a natural process, and I agree with you that it may be time for this site and the community to evolve. Evolve into what, I don't know.

Let me tell you a bit about what I have done for WotC. Before you nod off, and think this is a moralistic WotC is wonderful tale, let me say something: it isn't that animal. This haslittle to do with WotC as everyone here knows it. This is a story about how you love something and dream about something, and then once you get there it turns into as much of a chore as anything else. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

My job has basically changed to a different focus now, but for a very long time my main focus was supporting the Star Wars fan club. If there's anyone reading this that I've spoken to on the telephone or emailed about whatever, Hi! AnywayI watched Star Wars for the first time when I was 5 years old, and since then I've always loved it. Then I got the job supporting the fan club and I began to see the business side of things, and how it was my job to keep the fans completely oblivious to that (not that they should really know what goes on behind the scenes anyway).

For me Star Wars had been that mythical galaxy far, far, away, where I would travel to let my imagination wander. And then when I got the job supporting this beast at WotC, I was so thrilled. I was thrilled to be talking to other fans about these movies that I loved so much. I've read the books, collected action figures and comics, watched the movies about a hundred times each. I was the guy that always won at Star Wars Trivial Pursuit. In fact most people stopped trying after I trounced them the first couple of times.

And then one day it happened. The one thing that should never happen to any true fan of anything. The inevitable let down. It started innocently enough. I answered a phone call and got the expected questions about what was coming out that was new, and do we know where they can find certain action figures, and then after answering in all honesty that we hadn't seen these things yet, the person had the audacity to suggest that I wasn't a real fan of Star Wars. Me! Mr. I knew about the Zahn books a year before they were released. Me, Mr. seeing all 4 movies (at that time) on the opening night (except for possibly the frst because I can't remember a lot of details of when I was 5). Me, Mr. George Lucas is one of my favorite movie makers of all time! So I hid my irritation with this person, and finished up the call.

And then it hit me like a five ton weight landing square on my head. As much as I loved Star Wars, I had never called a phone line to try to probe for details that the person on the other end wasn't willing to tell me. I had never gone to a convention just to get Jeremy Bullochs autograph on a vintage Empire Strikes Back poster. I hadn't even gone to the Star Wars Celebration I. So was I a fan? I had always believed I was, but in comparison to a lot of the people I was dealing with day in and day out, I was little more than an observer! My level of dedication was really amateurish compared to some of these people.

In my time there, I've talked to people that literally spend thousands of dollars on merchandise on a monthly basis. Why? I guess that its harmless enough if their rent or mortgage is paid. Then there's the behavior of many of the fans, which should make most people cringe, but I won't even go into that. In time my enthusiasm for Star Wars began to wane. I took something that I had never been ashamed of before in my life, and internalized it. On the outside it was blase, but there was still part of me that I made sure was well hidden, that delighted in parts of this whole phenomenon - like the new movie. I just made sure that this part of me was never visible to the fans, because they wanted to get to the rumor monger and the spoiler in me. Some of them wanted to see me as their adversary because I couldn't give them the information/ product/ gratification/ recognition that they wanted. I just couldn't do it. What was even worse was that I sat back and watched exactly the same thing happen to the people that I worked with.

So what does this have to do with you? If you're lucky, absolutely nothing. But from what I'm getting, the industry demands are becoming tedious, and the job of handling other publishers isn't as personal and fun as you would like. The difference between your situation and mine is that you can choose to be the eternal fan. You can rumormonger. You can provide whatever spoilers that you have, and no one can really tell you not to do it. There is a certain innocence that you have as a fan, which you can't have as an industry insider. Enjoy that freedom! Do it in any manner you choose, and make sure that this fan base remains fun.

One last comment, and I mean this very sincerely. Another aspect of my job was dealing with role playing game fans via the online store. Before you start to wonder, Yes - that one! Anyway, it was always a pleasure dealing with role players. It is so much easier to explain the way things work to them, and I found them to be downright pleasant, reasonable, and intelligent to talk to. Yes, I prefer that community, but as a publisher myself, I won't even go into when I started gaming, how large my bookshelf(s) of games are, or partake in any other measurement of fandom. Lets just say that I was around when the 1st edition books were still coming out and leave it at that. Morrus, Enworld is your world, so I recommend limiting yourself only by your imagination. And one last time, have fun!

 

[Morrus]

Darrin, that was one of the coolest things I've ever heard anyone say. Bravo!

You should write a column, dammit, not me!

 

[Swiftbrook]

I have three ideas for EN World, in no particular order.

1) Keep the name.

2) Everything that you have in the left column on your main page place as drop down menus at the top of every page. So you would have a menu item called "Community" with Messageboards, etc. under it.

3) Drop your store. Your store is a disservice to the community. People who want discounted stuff are going to go else where. People who want full service are going to go else where. But my big beef is that it taints your news and information. Case in point: I didn't see any tidbits, links or news items about Buy.com's ridiculusly low price on Epic Level Handbook. Not sharring this info was/is a disservice.

-Swiftbrook

 

[EricNoah]

Your store is a disservice to the community.

Main Entry: over·state
Pronunciation: -'stAt
Function: transitive verb
Date: 1803
: to state in too strong terms : EXAGGERATE
- over·state·ment /-m&nt/ noun

Seriously, though, a little annecdote for you. Any time I pointed out some ridiculously low price on a product and linked people to it, I inevitably got e-mails from people saying what a disservice I'd done to local gaming shops.

Eh, whatever.

Russ's shop is for people who were going to buy online anyway AND want some of that money to go to Russ for the website. No one's twisting anyone's arm.

 

[Dinkeldog]

Irrelevant, Colonel Hardisson. The Oscars are not named after the organization handing out the awards. Now consider what would happen if the ESPies were given out by Sports Illustrated. That would be bad.

Other than that, I think Eric needs to face up to the monster he created that he no longer has control over.

Even with a name change for the site, the name of the awards wouldn't have to change. The ENnies has its own name recognition by now, I think, and I doubt anyone would get all confused about why they have that name. Take the Oscars for example - the name has nothing to do with the organization giving out the awards.

 

[ashockney]

Followup...

Hey Morrus!

Thanks for responding to my post, this is a great thread. If you use any of the ideas posted here, the site will evolve into something I'm excited to see!

You responded that you must MAKE MONEY to maintain (from your pocket) the costs of being the PREMIERE fan site on the web. I've understand and respect the costs involved (both maintenance and personnell) that require you to raise funds to support this public service. All of my recommendations would still stand as I made them, however. There is a big difference betweeen raising money to cover costs, and being the most PROFITABLE community (ie, making the most money for the least time/$$ spent). There are MANY, MANY ways to raise money to cover your costs. Auctions, fund drives, contests, donations (especially from the companies you support, you COULD accept their money if you didn't know from whom it came, or in what amount, and there are ways of making that happen). Many of these methods would help to defer costs (especially the cost of YOUR TIME). Check with other not-for-profit (NFP) businesses, websites, or books for more ideas on creative ways to do this. If you want to MAKE MONEY, all of this changes in my opinion, including your relationship with the publishers. I'm definitely not getting the idea that this is what you've set out to do.

In response to the post that questioned the sanity of my comments about using only industry professionals to conduct formal reviews, I encourage you to read Monte's excellent Line of Sight where he goes into detail about why one must be skeptical of reading reviews from non-professionals.

I don't know how much of this is from Monte, but here's why it's relevant to me: reviewers that aren't industry professionals weren't around during the mechanical development and statistical modeling, and don't have access to the tools, marketing, or playtest feedback that drove the decisions for 3rd Ed; they don't understand the business implications of certain decisions; and, finally they don't have the experience to recognize a particularly creative or innovative rule, encounter, scenario, creature, or spell because they have very limited experience doing it themselves.

Good luck with your re-org and your re-launch Morrus. Bottom line, we're all behind you 110%, regardless of what changes you make.