Redesigning and re-branding EN World

[JadeLyon]

It is fairly rare that I really want to weigh in on a discussion like this. It always seems like someone has already said what I want to say, and my time is valuable, so I just don't bother.

I really want you to know, Morrus, that since the inception of the World Wide Web, I have never frequented a site as much I frequent ENWorld, and Eric's site before. I've played D&D since I was 9, and its one of the few things I'm willing to devote my time to.

That said, I just want to say what I use ENWorld for. And what I love to see.

1. The coolest news is when someone in an industry takes time to address the ENWorld patrons--directly. I feel like we, as a community, have power. They know everyone who loves d20 comes here, and they should feel like they need to address us directly, not as some press release.

2. As a DM, I love your Electronic Aids section. I'm always looking for that "kickass" app that makes my job easier, so I appreciate it when I hear about a new update to a product, or a new one thats out. I'm passionate about giving a quality session to my players, and ENWorld has made me a better DM. Its opened up resources for me, highlighted the ones that mattered, so that I can have a virtual buffet of cool stuff. All a click away. Without you, Morrus, I'd have to spend countless hours searching, searching, searching.

3. The Forums. I don't post much. Like I said, most of what I have to say has already been said by someone else. What I'd like to see is an expansion here. I love it when you bring a cool thread to the front page. Again, I don't have a lot of time, so I enjoy being able to click on a link from the front page and go straight to a good, juicy thread. -- In addition, I'd like to say that if you could perhaps get a forum just for posting requests for hooking up gamers... maybe break it down by states and major cities. I bet there are 10,000 people in my area that'd love to find a few more people to play with (Seattle area).

So... however you want to arrange it, whatever you want to do, just do whatever it takes to keep this place around.

One more thing, on the name change. I know ya said not to focus on that, and I'm not. Just want to say, I like ENWorld for the nostalgia just like a lot of people. Its cool to know I was part of Eric Noah's community, and I was around when everything merged, and I was part of that amazing thing that happened when we all started to count the days, hours, and minutes 'til 3E his the shelves.

-josh (a.k.a Josef the Cat, a.k.a Jade Lyon)

 

[JDRay]

Do you have an example? I think I understand what you're getting at (and I think I agree) but an example would make it clearer.

Okay, this is sort of a bad example, but, from the 24th of May:

Quiklink have posted a preview of d20 Traveller (T20) - the Vargr alien race. Quiklink say that they will be posting new preview material at least once per week up until the release of T20. Also, scooper Hunter reports that "The main T20 book will be nothing but the rules system, no setting information. The Gateway Setting material will follow immediately after the core book."

Here you have a synergy of information from Quicklink (publisher) and Hunter (scooper). Now, if you could add to this your analysis of what these two data elements mean, you'd have the start of an editorial of some sort.

Like I said, this is something of a bad example, but I think you can get my drift from here.

 

[Eosin the Red]

Morrus,

Keep the name, many of us who have hung out here forever like it. Change causes stress. Look at how many comments about "I don't like where we are headed" occured after the Eric to Morrus switch. We don't see those anymore - they were a symptom of changed forced onto a large community.

Colors - I like them but I like others.

Layout - yup, it needs fixing. When I sent you the e-mail the other day I had to look for 30 min to find all of the links to my site.

I saw some stuff last night on inline frames, it migh help with the clutter. One of the web page guru may be able to help you out. I cant find a link to the site.

Fly-out menus (I hate them) may be the way to go.

Attiude - I like what you did with the KoK review a few months ago. It was much more personal.

Editorials - These sound really spiffy. Remember that you can have guest editorials. You have allot on you plate.

You might consider some helpers. Basically add yet another e-mail address. This one for scoops/front page info only! Then on some designated days other folks can check the e-mail and post the scoops for you. I know you have enough people around that you can trust not to monkey with stuff. That would free up some of your time and allow you to work on things you like.

Start the "COOL COMMUNITY NEWS" Do profiles on some story hours, talk to webmasters of other sites, several of us are having kids soon - make a "WHO IS MAKING NEW GAMERS" page. This gets you back to the community.

Have a celeberity pick of the week - "Monte Cook of MHP is really looking foward to the new Dinotopia d20 rules." Just a blurp - nothing more. Enough to catch peoples attention and have them investigate a product they may not have thought about.

These aren't things to create more work for you - while you may not feel like it, this sounds like burnout to me - these are things that might get you jazzed and into a FAN mode.

Some of the ideas prior to my post are really good -

The whole professional reviewer thing is not. Not many people who are professional d20 publishers were involved in the decisions used to "certify" their credentials. Orcus was not sitting at that table, but we all know he is a professional. PKitty probably had as much input as anyone not working for WotC, but he just recently attained freelancer status. That neither gives more or less weight to their opinions. Your reviews do a stellar job - I don't always agree with them but I understand their opinions. If you wanted to have reviews by Nitchick - I would love that. Most other professionals need to worry about bridges and future employment.

Always keep in mind that you have a stellar list of people you can bank on. Many will say they will step forward that will not, but time and time again I have seen ENworlders step up to the plate when it counted.

 

[Hawkmoon]

Thats like saying only filmmakers can criticize other filmmakers. You can't tell me you have never told a friend that a movie sucked(either because of acting, music, direction etc), and they shouldn't see it. By your reasoning, you can never tell anyone what you thought of any movie or any product, unless you are a professional, because, well, your opinion doesn't count.

There is no problem with someone reviewing any product as long as they provide reasons why they felt a product was either usefull or useless. Now if someone writes a review saying just saying "This product sucked" and didn't provide reasons then that is another matter.

Basicly you are saying that any DM or player with X years experience can not decide for themselves what they find usefull and impart that knowledge to others. That is ludicicrous. Now if in a review all you are interested in is game balance, and are these mechanics sound, then yes, a professional designer may be able to offer insight that others can't. While mechanics are an important factor, the quality of the mechanics is only part of any product. The importance of said factor will vary from product to product; obviously depending on the aims of said product. What if the prestige classes in a product may be a bit over or underpowered, but their concepts are great, they have a great history layed out for them, and would that product be bad? That is total subjective.

As for designers knowing why rule 'Y' was put in place, doesn't make the reason rule 'Y' exists a good reason for rule 'Y' to exist. There is nothing wrong with a non-designer challenging a rule, as long as they have reason to do so, and those reasons are explained. Thats part of the reason the D20 licsence is really neat, because the system can change. I know I have disagreed with Monte in the quality/usefullness of a product, and in the instance he laid out why he thought the way he did. I could see his points, and agreed with him for the most part, but I disagreed on how much those points detracted from the product.

Are you saying you don't think Monte listens to his customers when they let him know what they did/didn't like about his products, and that he doesn't change them within reason, to meet those expectations/suggestions, just because his customers may not be industry professionals? I think not.

Hell I could be wrong heh.

Anyway I'm going to leave it at this, because this isn't what this discussion is about. Heh.


Hawkmoon

 

[XCorvis]

Morrus, check out Ars Technica. It's a tech site, but the stories are heavily commented by the people who post them. Is this the kind of stuff you're looking to do?

 

[Emiricol]

"rebranding" in this case (as in most cases) would be a mistake. Everyone knows ENWorld by name. Also, I think you should keep the news. Yours is the single best site by far for keeping the community up to date. The gaming community would come out poorer for it if you give this up.

One idea would be to a) streamline ENWorld, then b) launch a closely affiliated but separate spin-off site for the community stuff you want to focus more on

 

[Pelosan Emperor]

With regard to the site's name, my vote would be to keep EN World. I agree with everyone who made the "name recognition" argument... and they all said it better that I would, so I'll shut up about that issue.

With regard to the site navigation issue:

Like several other folks who visit your site, I do web development professionally... for what ever that's worth At any rate, it has been my experience that Frames are sometimes more trouble than they are worth. If you end up using a complex frameset, site maintenance can become a whole new kind of headache. I tend to prefer the so-called "fly-out" menus (also known as dynamic menus). I found one some time ago that is (in my opinion) the best! It's called the Ultimate Dropdown Menu.

http://www.brothercake.com/dropdown/index.html

The menu system is highly customizable, and VERY cross-browser compatible. There is ample documentation and customization information on Brothercake's site.

The creator allows it to be used for free by personal and non-profit sites. Commercial sites are asked to pay a $40.00 licensing fee.

(FYI, I am not associated with this site in any way -- other than being a satisfied customer!)

I agree with several of the others that the current main page is too busy. Dropping the right column would help quite a bit. Consolidating the main navigation links into 5 - 7 primary headings would also help.

I strongly agree that off-site links should open their own window. 80% - 90% of the time, I end up 'Back'ing up to get back to EN World.

The Message Boards are where I spend most of my time on the site. (lurking ) I would ask that you keep this as one of the links in your main navigation element.

Well, back to lurking.

PE

 

[thatdarncat]

Also, more interviews would be welcome.

Got someone you want to see interviewed?

Tell me about it and I'll do my best to get them booked

thatdarncat@psionics.net

Originally posted by William Ronald
We have Peter Adkison in the chat room on Wednesday!

And Mystic Eye/THG the week after...
And EGG on September 4th...

And lots of other people I can't go look up right now

www.d20reviews.com/chat.htm

 

[rpghost]

I strongly agree that off-site links should open their own window. 80% - 90% of the time, I end up 'Back'ing up to get back to EN World.

Slightly off topic reply, but I'm surprised at how many people don't known this... When using IE just hold down the LEFT SHIFT key as you click a link and it will automatically open the link into a new window for you.

I never trust a site to program in target="_blank" (which will get you a new window), so I just get in the habit of always using Left-Shift-Click when I don't want to leave a site I'm still reading.

Hope that helps some of you.

James
http://www.RPGHost.com

P.S. I never did make a statement about the name, but I too strongly believe that the name as is means something to those who have been around here long enough and it shouldn't be changed (Even though it doesn't mean crap to the new users).

 

[Morrus]

Here's something I whipped up:

http://www.enworld.org/dropdown/

Needs a bit of work and rearranging, but you can get a general idea. Let me know what you think.