Redesigning and re-branding EN World

[Brown Jenkin]

I think it does look better, but I do think a few tweaks would help. I will agree with others the right side links need to move to the left, It just did not read quite right (so to speak). The other suggestion I would trow out is too move the top links to just under the title and ad banner. I think this helps define the page better. For an example of what I am talking about look at www.cdw.com Well thats my 2cp.

 

[Undead Pete]

Morrus,

I somehow missed the menu on the top at the first look. The menu helps.

It looks a lot more manageable to me. I think this could well be the way to go.

I agree.... the drop down menu is nice, but I did miss it at first as well. I think it needs to be a bit more prominent for us oblivious folks

 

[Pelosan Emperor]

First things first: I think you're doing a GREAT job!

I'll note a small techical problem with dropdown2: If you run your mouse pointer slowly along the dropdown menu list from top to bottom, you'd expect each menu to show up in succession, but that's not what happens.

The menu get "jammed" - until your pointer drops below the level of the currently displayed drop-down choices, it won't show another menu. That means a lot of mouse-wagging to switch from one drop-down to another.

As you run the pointer up, this isn't an issue, as the pointer is always above the dropdown menu.

I noticed this problem on dropdown2 as well. I haven't used the "vertical" arrangement yet, but the examples on http://www.brothercake.com don't seen to have this problem.

Perhaps it has to do with the second-level menu appearing "below" the parent button. Maybe if the "child" menu appears immediately to the right of the parent, it won't have this effect.

If you can solve this issue, I would vote for the dropdown2 configuration... with one suggestion: it might look better if you move the right column contents under the navigation links on the left.

If you go with the horizontal menu configuration, I would suggest that you move the menu under the site logo and addvertisement. That should keep the "layering" issue to a minimum.

I don't remember who, but someone else mentioned the non-JavaScript browsers having problems with this menu system. One solution to this problem is to use images in a table as the "parent" links, then set the color and text properties of the "parent" menu to be transparent. Brothercake has a tutorial on his site.

One last comment: the direct quotes are a bit too small to read easily, particularly the longer ones. I think indenting the quotes and changing the font color is sufficient to set them off from the surrounding text.

PE

 

[Agnostic Paladin]

Good points, bad points

While I don't like such a wide text area, its probably better for people who are running at less than 1280, so I'm fine with dropping to a single navbar.

The colour scheme seems the same to me, or close enough to not be noticable. Which is fine, because I really like the current colours, including the barely visible 3e logo.

The ad banner's kind of in an odd spot, not centered and not right justified. (It's like that on the current page too, but its not as noticable since its at the very top.

The header box (with the date in it) should either run the entire width of the text, or sort of fade into the background.

And I really like the top navbar. Except that the menus for the Ennies and Misc drop down behind the banner. Also, are they built with scripts or xml? If they're XML, it'd be cool to have them stay at the top of the screen instead of scrolling up. (Maybe that's possible with whatever sort of scripting is being used. I don't know scpripts.)

 

[NeuroZombie]

I agree with Brown Jenkin. I like the top nav idea, but it may be more advantageous to put it under the banner and logo. You may also want to find another script that does the same thing, however. That script seems to bog down and not load as cleanly as it should. It kinda skips on both my home computer (xp) and the win 2000 computers at school.

As for the banner/navbar issue, the reason that the navbar is being hidden by the banner is probably because you put the banner in an iframe. If it was just a part of the regular html, I don't believe it would do that. Of course, using the iframe makes placement a lot easier, so there is a caveat.

Also, as mentioned by Zaukrie, placing nav items on the left CAN (but not always, depends on how it is done) cause confusion and is usually not reccomended.

 

[dema]

DROP DOWN, DROP DOWN. Yeah I like the drop down. But as for the top or left positioni don't know yet. I don't like the text starting at the left. Put something there like the store thing or something else. Ohh and I'm sure you can fit where the drop down menu thing pops into, it's not aligned nice. I use FireWorks for that sort of stuff, and I know moving things around shouldn't be hard.

I like the drop down, but also, for the submenus within the drop down list, put an arrow if a section like the Natural 20 Press has another option like the Asgard mag link.

My at a glance thoughts.

-dem

 

[Swiftbrook]

Idea:
Use the vertical menu system across the top BUT
place the ENWorld logo above it on the left and teh D20 logo above it on the right.

-Swiftbrook

 

[Mystic Eye]

Hey Russ. I like it and I know it is a test but I think it is now tooo dry and those menus seem to be working but I worry about the stability. I have seen other sites with these menu's and they often times are clunky.

If I may suggest to get in touch with Chris at Web studios one. He may be able to help you and really wants to be a part of the gaming community even though they are a main stream web design outfit.

I am, hopefully, going to be using them to redesign the MEG/TG site after the con period is over.

http://www.webstudio-1.com

 

[Conaill]

YUCK!

I'm sorry, but I really dislike drop-down menus. Actually, I hate everything that requires javascript!

Javascript is so riddled with security holes and gives such a poor tradeoff between added utility and annoyance (e.g. drop-down menus vs. having to deal with pop-ups) that I simply leave it turned off. If you want me to stop looking at ENWorld past the front page and bulletin boards, by all means, go ahead and use the drop-down menus.

At the very least you would need to provide an alternative way to navigate your site. That means implementing (and updating) all the navigation TWICE, so more work for you.

That being said... I *did* turn on javascript to check out the drop-down menus, and I have to say they look rather bad on my machine (Linux box using Netscape). In both versions "D20 System" is split over two lines, making it fail to line up with the other menus. In the menu-on-top version, the highlighting when you move over the top menu items is offset from the menu item, overlapping it to the left and slightly up. In both version, the highlighting for sub-menus (especially with multi-line entries) is also off significantly. There errors seem to happen even on brothercake's own website.

For example: when I select "Hosted" on the menu-on-top page, a highlighted "Hosted" is displayed, overlapping almost half of the "Archive" menu item to the left of it. Then when I go down to "Crooked Staff Productions", the highlighting overlaps with the second line of the previous item (where it says "Design" in "Claudio Pozas Art & Design"). When I move to "Natural 20 Press", the submenu for "Asgard" comes up to the right of "Crooked Staff Productions", and I have to move my cursor quickly up and right to be able to "catch" that submenu before it disappears. Moving even further down, when my cursor is over "Malls & Morons", a highlighted "Malls & Morons" is displayed, partially overlapping the entry for "Dusk" several entries up! (I'll post some screenshots if people are interested.)

I have seen dropdown menu systems that worked fine under my configuration, but this is *definitely* not one of them!

OK, enough bitching... time for some constructive suggestions. I think the best single thing you could do for the front page is to do away with the three column format. I was really struck by how much legible everything became on the menu-on-top page, simply because you got rid of that left hand column. Ignore the menus for a second, and compare the original page (wide left column) with the menu-on-left page (narrower left column with the menus) and the menu-on-top page (no left column). In the first one, I typically have to scroll down 2-3 pages just to read one day's news. The latter shows me almost an entire days' news on the very first page.

I would suggest (again) you do away with the entire rightmost column. Then we can restructure the current menus on the left a bit and presto: huge improvement in usability and looks.

 

[Miho]

Ok, I'm very new to the EN World site so I'm really unfamiliar with the old layout. I also haven't read the ton of posts before this so I may repeat points but here's my thoughts on the front page:

1. I like the drop down menus across the top - it makes areas much easier to find straight away. (However if this is where it is going to be then you could do with a "top of page" link at the bottom of the page to travel back to it quickly after reading down the other information.)

2. I don't like the text reaching so far across the page. It makes it harder to read which ultimately could mean people won't read it - this would mean a waste of your time in putting all this hard work into it. Newspapers use narrow columns for a good reason, small blocks of text are easier on the eye. In this respect the old layout is better.

3. I think the links down the side are a good idea - but would be better on the left hand side, as this is where your text is justified against.

4. I'm not to keen on the current text background. This is probably a personal preference but behind large areas of text I prefer it to be a solid colour rather than any sort of picture/texture. Again it's because it makes it that tiny bit harder to read. If you really want to keep it I'd suggest changing the font you use over it to something a little bolder.

You obviously put a huge amount of time and effort into this site and that shows. For a first quck layout it has some good possibilities. I look forward to seeing what other ideas you have for the site!