Rediscovering D&D

[maddman75]

I've been on hiatus from D&D. I think it was running RttToEE that burned me out, but I wanted no part of traditional fantasy for some time. After playing a few short term All Flesh, WoD, and Exalted games, as well as an extremely successful year-long Buffy season, I'm getting the itch to play D&D again. Plus my girlfriend, who loved the Buffy game, is eager to try some D&D. The rules are more complicated, but she liked the D&D Miniatures game, so I think its all good.

I'm a very cinematic minded GM. In the Buffy game I went to a cinematic extreme - I disdained maps and plot preparation entirely. One reason this was possible is that the game didn't have much of an exploratory element - the group was always in the same town, often using the same sets. D&D has exploration as one of its themes, and I really want to explore the basic themes of a D&D game. So what are they?

Exploration of the unknown is one. The idea that the brave few can make a difference in the world is another. Part of what inspired me was a post from a 1e fan I think from Dragonsfoot that I think went something like this - don't worry about what the orcs eat or where they sleep or what the ecology of the dungeon is. They're monsters. There's a dark cave full of them, you can see their eyes gleaming, and they can't wait to drag you down into the dark with them." This is the vibe I want to go for - I really want to recapture that sense of wonder.

For my initial setup, I'm going with something like Keep on the Borderlands. Not that module, because most of the group has played it many times over, but my own version of the basic concept. There's a keep out on a wilderness frontier. Adventurers and mercenaries are coming there to make their fortunes. There's a cave not far away full of orcs and other foul beasts.

For the orcs themselves I really want to get the idea that these are inhuman beasts. Not faceless hordes, but boogeymen out of a fairy tale. Bizzare behaviour, cannibalism, and so on. As they explore they'll find no orc children or females (so I can avoid *that* debate) and ultimately they are spawned out of a pit of bubbling evil. The ancient caves are part of an old dwarven citadel, and the dwarves dug too deep and awakened an ancient evil. Its stirring again, and may soon erupt in an invasion.

Any suggestions on how to pull off this theme? Or for getting that old school yet cinematic feeling into the game?

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Any suggestions on how to pull off this theme? Or for getting that old school yet cinematic feeling into the game?

Sounds really cool!

I'd recommend:
1. Trying to get the players (not just the PCs) out of their comfort zone. The spin and descrpition you're giving your monsters will help. You don't want the players thinking about the MM entry for orc and running its numbers in their head. You don't want them thinking about "spot checks" and bonuses and DCs, either. That leads me to...

2. Emphasizing player descriptive action (not just DM description), rather than crunch + rolls. For example, have the players describe how they are searching for traps, and base their success (or lack of it) mainly on that, as much as possible. In OD&D(1974) and Holmes Basic, even thieves didn't have a special ability to find traps (only to remove small ones). There's something to be said for that approach.

3. If you're giving a cinematic description of combat, and the players are responding to your description, don't worry too much about rules limitations. For example, if you describe a PC's spear penetrating into the orc's bulging thigh, and the player says "Great! Can I use the spear to shove him back against the wall, or lever him aside?" you'll want to go with that. Above all, don't tell him "no, because you don't have the right feat," and don't tell him "yes," but make it so penalized that it's not worth trying (e.g. "well, you don't have the feat, but you can still try it -- you'll just roll at a penalty and draw an attack of opportunity"). You want to assign a difficulty and let him try it. Or, if you think he'd just be able to do it, then let him do it without a roll, as part of the narrative.

(Have you considered running the game using an old-school system? I know there's some "common wisdom" that says the system doesn't really matter, but I disagree with it; I think the system has a big influence on the way the game plays and feels. I agree that you can play "old school" with modern rules, but I also think you get a better "old school" game when using old school rules. YMMV, as always.)

 

[Korgoth]

This kind of goes with "exploration of the unknown", but I'd say that the "civilization vs. underworld" is a main theme as well. The city/town/keep is logical and relatively (though maybe not entirely) safe; the underworld is weird and dangerous. I see the wilderness as the transitional element. There has always been some tension on this point: as much as I like Keep on the Borderlands, it's way less "weird" than perhaps it should be; there should be something constantly dangerous and mysterious about the regions below which always keep the PCs on their toes.

I'd second the suggestion for using an old school system. If you want the old school feel, that's the best way to get it. If you don't have access to Classic or 1E materials (or perhaps 2E, if you enjoy that one), you can always use Castles and Crusades or OSRIC. The 3E reliance on skill checks, feats and so on, as well as the explosive power curve (if the game gets to the higher levels) is definitely "new school"... you can escape those issues by going with an old school rule set. Plus, combats will go faster.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

If you don't have access to Classic or 1E materials (or perhaps 2E, if you enjoy that one), you can always use Castles and Crusades or OSRIC.

Or Basic Fantasy.

 

[Mycanid]

I'd second the suggestion for using an old school system. If you want the old school feel, that's the best way to get it. If you don't have access to Classic or 1E materials (or perhaps 2E, if you enjoy that one), you can always use Castles and Crusades or OSRIC. The 3E reliance on skill checks, feats and so on, as well as the explosive power curve (if the game gets to the higher levels) is definitely "new school"... you can escape those issues by going with an old school rule set. Plus, combats will go faster.

I would third the suggest for Castles and Crusades. I just finally got the two main "source books" myself and they are an absolute pleasure to read. If you love "old school" stuff you should definitely give it a look see, IMNSHO.

OSRIC is also nice, of course. Great work went into it.

Going back to the 1e or Basic or Expert editions is good, of course! But one plus Castles and Crusades has is the 1e "approach" combined with some of the better elements of subsequent versions of the game.

You have also tried the Dungeon Crawl modules from Goodman Games, yes?

 

[maddman75]

Yeah, system matters but do does the way you apply said system. I think I'm going to use a variation on Action Points. That way I can let the players spend them to do those fancy things and reward making the game more fun for everyone else.

I'm definitely down with what you describe.

 

[Mycanid]

One possibility you might look into is the Castles and Crusades section over at Dragonsfoot.org

Not only a few freebie modules and setting, but also a bit of discussion about possible rules add-ons for you ... you know, things that worked or did not work for others who were "tweaking" the base of the system some. I am told C&C is highly tweakable.

 

[mmadsen]

I think it was running RttToEE that burned me out, but I wanted no part of traditional fantasy for some time.

I haven't run or played in Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, but my understanding is that it's exactly the kind of thing to burn out a group on 3E.

After playing a few short term All Flesh, WoD, and Exalted games, as well as an extremely successful year-long Buffy season, I'm getting the itch to play D&D again.

Perhaps, if you've had success with All Flesh Must Be Eaten and Buffy, you should give Dungeons & Zombies or Army of Darkness a try as your "D&D" system?

Exploration of the unknown is one. The idea that the brave few can make a difference in the world is another.

Exploration is definitely a theme of old-school D&D, but I don't think you second theme is quite on. In old-school D&D, you expected to start out at 1st-level and die repeatedly, often for fairly arbitrary reasons -- but a 1st-level nobody did have the potential to become a 10th-level world-changer.

This ties in nicely with the old-school tendency to bring along a lot of "spear carriers" on adventures. They can die all kinds of grisly deaths to demonstrate the lethality of what the PCs are doing.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

This ties in nicely with the old-school tendency to bring along a lot of "spear carriers" on adventures. They can die all kinds of grisly deaths to demonstrate the lethality of what the PCs are doing.

That makes me think of the last session of my B4-The Lost City game (using Holmes). There are several NPCs with the party, and one of them was carrying the Fighter's spear. Sadly, this individual died from multiple short-sword thrusts in a melee with the Brotherhood of Gorm.

 

[The Shaman]

For the orcs themselves I really want to get the idea that these are inhuman beasts. Not faceless hordes, but boogeymen out of a fairy tale. Bizzare behaviour, cannibalism, and so on. As they explore they'll find no orc children or females (so I can avoid *that* debate) and ultimately they are spawned out of a pit of bubbling evil. The ancient caves are part of an old dwarven citadel, and the dwarves dug too deep and awakened an ancient evil. Its stirring again, and may soon erupt in an invasion.

Awesome.

How 'bout goblins that reproduce by fission? Let the adventurers encounter a two-headed, three-legged, four-armed goblin that's in the midst of the change . . .