Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Fair enough. My not-in-person game is just run on Discord by voice.
D&D 5E Reducing Power Gaming
- Thread starter GothmogIV
- Start date
OptionalRule
Hyperion
Have a longer talk with the group about what style of play that game is about and what ruins the experience for you as a DM.
"Hey guys, there are lots of different playstyles and they are all valid. For me though, in this game I'm trying to run an X style and create a challenge for everyone at the table within those boundaries. I don't want to turn the game into constantly twisting the rules for rules' sake and for power. It's an arms race I just don't enjoy even trying to keep up with. So if we can chill a bit and play the game in a more X way, without all of that, it will help me avoid burnout."
Something like that anyway. Really lay out what you're trying to do. Keep playing, maybe comment a time or two if it's going out of bounds, but you can't police every behavior and be careful about being hyper-vigilant about it. The outcome isn't up to you though, it's up to the players. All you can do is communicate. It's possible they adjust course and it all comes together. It's also possible one or more of them just can't adapt or just can't enjoy a game that's not about power gaming, and that's okay too, but you'll likely have to find a new group better suited for your style if that's the case.
Basically, someone is going to have to change and learn to live with it.
Kaiyanwang
Adventurer
Speaking as someone that is main 3e when is not BECMI - I am unsure this is correct. The thing is, while 3e characters punch hard (to address a later part of your post, including melee characters when competently built and played, but I understand THAT is not for everyone), 3e monsters also punch hard - VERY hard, in fact, if the DM stops using them out of the box and builds them using the same philosophy "optimizing" players use (you don't NEED to do that, but you CAN in certain circumstances).
This means that while the PCs can do a lot, the world remains an utterly dangerous place and you can be gone in one round. A high-multiplier critical, a spell that kills/petrifies/scares you to death, a pouncing or lance charge, a debuff stack.
Sometimes is not even a matter of deadliness, but of dealing with something that has the right mobility or spell like to mess with your plans without directly damaging you.
Which in turn means that you need to play carefully, use counter measures (which have their own counters) and you will still be aware that you are not on the top of the food chain because anything can be out there.
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Use only the 2014 free rules. That should pretty much do it I think.
GMMichael
Guide of Modos
Talking with PCs about expectations is always sage advice. With D&D though - it's an uphill battle. The book, which gets conflated with the game, tells PCs, "at level X, Y, and Z you get these awesome powers!" So if the DM comes along and says, "well no, you don't," then the DM is just out to ruin everyone's fun. So yes, tell the players what you're thinking, but don't be surprised when they revolt because you're doing something that seems less fun than what the rule book promised them.
overgeeked
Open-World Sandbox
Exactly. I’ve given up fighting it. Instead of clamping down on PCs I just ramp up the monsters that much more.
ezo
Hero
Then it becomes an escalation battle IMO. You ramp up monsters to meet PC power, making PCs feel less powerful, so PCs get more stuff to keep the game "fun", and then you have to ramp up monsters again, etc.
We're developing an E12 mod and I discussed it with the rest of my players last night. It is for 2014, but only PHB and XGtE for players, no Tasha's or other supplements. There is no CON bonus to HP, so you won't have PCs like our 7th-level Fighter with 98 HP because of a CON 20.
IME too many HP for the PCs (everyone with CON 14 or better), OP subclass features, and too much magic in general (and later on spells of 8th and 9th levels), are the biggest culprits.
We're developing an E12 mod and I discussed it with the rest of my players last night. It is for 2014, but only PHB and XGtE for players, no Tasha's or other supplements. There is no CON bonus to HP, so you won't have PCs like our 7th-level Fighter with 98 HP because of a CON 20.
IME too many HP for the PCs (everyone with CON 14 or better), OP subclass features, and too much magic in general (and later on spells of 8th and 9th levels), are the biggest culprits.
GMMichael
Guide of Modos
That'll work - the DM's tool bag always has a bigger tool in it. I don't ramp up the monsters. I just use a different game. Problem (D&D) solved.
I'm not following this one. How do the PCs get more stuff than what's in the rule book, unless the DM gives it to them?
Or are you saying the DM should appease the PCs when they revolt for feeling less powerful? It's starting to sound like a table full of players who play all of their CRPGs with the difficulty set to Minimum.
Hriston
Dungeon Master of Middle-earth (He/him)
Powergaming is just a technique your players are using to make their characters and themselves more effective in what's seen as a competitive arena (the game). It can lead to dysfunction if everyone isn't on board. If that's not what you're into, tell your players you want a game that's more focused on imagining and communicating about the fiction.
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