Reducing the number of encounters in a day

[Xeviat]

Hi everyone. I'm determined to craft 5E into the system I want. One of the things I haven't fully enjoyed is the ease of medium encounters and how much work a 6 to 8 encounter day actually is. Luckily, those issues are related.

As long as the same daily xp is kept, and the same number of short rests a day is kept, then everything should remain balanced as intended. Right?

Maybe not. Most long or short rest recovery abilities can be used multiple times in a single fight, so longer, harder fights, but not all.

The Barbarian is the biggest problem child. If you're going to have 3 to 4 encounters per day, earning your 5th, 6th, and unlimited rages might seem a little wasted. Sure, you can get knocked out of a rage; even after level 15, you can still be knocked unconscious. Is this going to be a problem for barbarian's? Will using harder, less frequent fights make the barbarian feel less incentivized to level up past a certain level, or do they gain enough.

If you're usually going to get a short rest after most fights, then moon Druids have a lot more freedom to wild shape. I don't use the standard wild shape mechanics anymore, though, so I'm not sure how this will affect it.

The battle master fighter and the monk each have an ability that may be worth less than it was before. If you're typically going to get a short rest after every encounter, then relentless and perfect self become less useful. You will probably only have to deal with two encounters between short rests if they are easier encounters than the norm, so starting an encounter with 0 superiority dice or ki (it's interesting that these are very similar abilities ...).

Less encounters also means less time for the thief rogue to use thief's reflexes, and less opportunities for the assassin rogue to use assassinate and death strike. With harder fights, those opening moves will mean less. Will this be an issue?

The Warlock's Eldritch Master ability will come up less often too, for the same reason as the Fighter and Monk's recovery abilities.

So what are your thoughts? If your game was going to use less frequent, but harder fights, would you want to see these abilities beefed up or traded for something else, or do you think they'd be fine?

 

[Azurewraith]

Its a tough one up untill now i have been running all deadly encounters(they seem more like medium for the most part) the party tend to do about 2 of these before a short rest but these results are anecdotal and not for every one we would get maybe 2-4 encounters in a day but i generally let them run at their own pace you lose a short rest from the norm so that could be an issue but i haven't seen it.

I guess you could use the variant rests to make a short rest 8hours and a long rest a day maybe?

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

So what are your thoughts? If your game was going to use less frequent, but harder fights, would you want to see these abilities beefed up or traded for something else, or do you think they'd be fine?

I think it is incumbent upon the players to create their own tempo. If I'm playing a short-rest-restore class like a Battlemaster, Warlock, Moon Druid or a Bladesinger, and I know that my DM has a whole day's worth of XP sitting in this dungeon, probably all within earshot of the front entrance, it's on me to sneak in, negotiate with or (quietly!) kill whatever monsters I can get to, and then vanish into a Rope Trick (or camp outside the dungeon in a tree) to rest and regain wildshape uses. The ability to recharge on a short rest gives me the potential to hit-and-run effectively, but it's up the player to make use of it effectively.

Otherwise, you just wind up fighting a whole day's worth of XP all at once. Which can be fun, mind you.

 

[S'mon]

The Barbarian is the biggest problem child. If you're going to have 3 to 4 encounters per day, earning your 5th, 6th, and unlimited rages might seem a little wasted. Sure, you can get knocked out of a rage; even after level 15, you can still be knocked unconscious. Is this going to be a problem for barbarian's? Will using harder, less frequent fights make the barbarian feel less incentivized to level up past a certain level, or do they gain enough.

Well, my main advice would be to not use multiclassing in 5e, it turns it into a 3e/PF build-based game, and 5e is not well designed for that. A single class Barbarian is fine and very powerful at any level - and their capstone STR 24 CON 24 isn't bad!

My games typically have 1-3 fights in an adventuring day. The Barbarian & Cleric seem well balanced for this, being both Long Rest based classes. The Rogue, an always-on class, is comparatively slightly weaker in combat, but I think part of that is he rarely uses his class abilities like stealth & Assassinate.

 

[mellored]

Are you playing at a level where most of those abilities matter?

 

[jrowland]

I am playing PotA. 3 PCs: Eldritch Knight, Light Cleric, and an Assassin. I am not modifying encounters. They are currently level 6 and decimated one level in a single day, only 1 short rest. They another level they did 2 short rests and a long rest and only cleared 1/2. Essentially 5 ish encounters a day. I don't know why you would want to reduce the encounters, but I'll accept you have reasons.

I think what you'll find is the players will want to short rest more often (after every encounter maybe), so I'd keep an open mind to shortening the short rest to a 4E-like 5 minutes.

I should note: I have a 3rd rest mechanic in my game: Brief rest. A Brief Rest is about 5 minutes to catch ones breath, and bind up some wounds (use HD). This keeps the primary reason for a short rest to replenish abilities rather than healing. For a 3 man party this is fine, but if you have 4 or 5 PCs it may be too generous.

 

[GMMichael]

One of the things I haven't fully enjoyed is the ease of medium encounters and how much work a 6 to 8 encounter day actually is. Luckily, those issues are related.

Do you mean "6 to 8 combat encounter day?" Since there are 2 other "pillars" to 5e, you might throw some of those into your encounter mix.

As long as the same daily xp is kept, and the same number of short rests a day is kept, then everything should remain balanced as intended. Right?

If XP are intended to click along like clockwork, sure. I'm not sure that that's the intent, though. Otherwise, XP would be called "seconds."

The Barbarian is the biggest problem child. If you're going to have 3 to 4 encounters per day, earning your 5th, 6th, and unlimited rages might seem a little wasted.

Conan would be highly insulted that you consider his rages wasted. In the movies, anyway, did he get into more than four -combat- encounters in a day? The books?

If you're usually going to get a short rest after most fights, then moon Druids have a lot more freedom to wild shape. I don't use the standard wild shape mechanics anymore, though, so I'm not sure how this will affect it.

Short rest is what, you sit down for an hour, have a snack, and screw your helmet back on in the right direction? Are the badguys really going to wait for this after each fight?

So I guess I'm answering questions with questions. Hope that helps!

 

[Xeviat]

Yes, I mean combat encounters; social and exploration encounters don't tax player resources very much, unless it's a very involved skill challenge-esque exploration scene with falling of cliffs and what not.

If daily XP budgets aren't kept to, then daily focused classes are empowered and short rest focused characters are weakened. Your players may not notice it, but they could. Either they might feel weak, or you may find a leaning in your games towards certain classes. If that's fine, great. I don't like players to feel weaker than other characters, as I've seen it kill a player's interest in a game.

I'm prepared to have a short rest after most fights, ala 4E. I will probably reduce them to 5 minute rests like 4E too.

As for not using multiclassing: multiclassing is one of the things I like about 5E that I didn't like about 4E. I'd like to keep it around.

 

[Bawylie]

Reward hard-to-deadly encounters with easy-to-medium XP.

The encounter-building guidelines are on a kind of scale or dial. Just turn it up when building new encounters, but keep the awards-dial in place.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Hi everyone. I'm determined to craft 5E into the system I want. One of the things I haven't fully enjoyed is the ease of medium encounters and how much work a 6 to 8 encounter day actually is. Luckily, those issues are related.

As long as the same daily xp is kept, and the same number of short rests a day is kept, then everything should remain balanced as intended. Right?

Pretty close, yes. And, for a game balanced like 5e, 'close enough,' probably is.

I mean, have you really noticed the classes being all that mechanically 'balanced' at 6-8 encounters? It's the theoretical balance-point, but spotlight balance remains something that is very responsive to the challenges and situations the DM presents. However much a rogue might be disadvantaged relative to a caster in a 'too short' day, for instance, if the party frequently faces challenges that day which require his Expertise skills, he'll get to shine.

So what are your thoughts? If your game was going to use less frequent, but harder fights, would you want to see these abilities beefed up or traded for something else, or do you think they'd be fine?

I'm guessing the issue here is that these are higher-level abilities, and if they're not up-to-snuff, players will avoid those levels of those classes via multi-classing. That might happen, but it's a more important concern if you were writing guidelines that many DMs were going to use. Since you're just doing this for your own campaign, it's more personal. It doesn't matter if the barbarian class presents enough meaningful/viable choices in the context of you campaign, it matters if the guy playing the barbarian is enjoying the campaign. That might be he'll MC out of barbarian or make other choices tailored to your style, and it might not - and, if there are issues, you can address them case by case rather than with documented house-rule changes.

Less encounters also means less time for the thief rogue to use thief's reflexes, and less opportunities for the assassin rogue to use assassinate and death strike. With harder fights, those opening moves will mean less. Will this be an issue?

OK, that's not nothing. You could allow that 'waves' count as new encounters for some purposes. That could allow you to have 6-8 'Encounters' in the mechanical sense, while still having 3 or 4 in the story sense.