D&D 5E Reevaluating Mage Slayer feat

[ECMO3]

So I think the general consensus is that Mage Slayer is not a great feat and generally worse than an ASI and I honestly only saw it on one character until last year.

Last year is the first time I took the feat. I put it on a Shaddar Kai Zhentilar's Finest Fighter in a 1-20 campaign at 19th level. That character already had 20 strength, Resilient Wisdom, Skill Expert (Intimidate), Shadow Touched (Cause Fear) and Magic Initiate (Hex, Friends, Eldritch Blast). I really didn't have a lot more I wanted to get so I figured I would take MS since Vecna was the antagonist and we knew we would be facing them eventually. It worked out really well, it was great before we even got to Vecna.

After that I put it on another character on a 1-20 campaign, a Dhamphir Long Death Monk (with a 2-level death cleric dip). I had her take it at 14th level (Monk 12/Cleric 2). Again it came in really useful in the 2nd half of the game, probably worth the Dex ASI I didn't take (and I actually finished with an 18 Dex/20 Wisdom). This character was superfast and would just run past the melee goons (taking AOOs if necessary) to get next to the enemy casters. This was even better than the fighter because when they tried to cast a spell they were usually going to get hit with stunning strike.

I still don't think it is a real good feat in most games (tier 1/2), but if you are going to be fighting casters this can be a really good feat to take at high level on a martial who can be your specialist at downing enemy casters. You punish them for using reactions too, want to counterspell your party Wizard, take an AOO .... want to cast shield to try and make one of my attacks miss? Great I get to make another attack on you.

I had so much fun with this feat. Anyone else actually played this feat, especially at high level and have any thoughts?

 

[Clint_L]

I think if it was that good on a 2014 monk it'll be awesome sauce on a 2024 monk!

 

[jgsugden]

From a story perspective, it can be iconic. To that end, if you want to give a feel to a PC, it is a real good choice.

From an efficiency perspective, it is highly dependent upon the DM and their game design. It can be a feat you take at level 4 and get to use twice by level 20, or it can be something that comes up in nearly every battle. I don't like the design because it provides bad incentives to a DM. If a player selects it and the DM wants to support the choice, that means adding more spellcasters to combat.

To me, it should have featured a passive that benefits the PC even when not fighting spellcasters, such as an ability to extract magic from a spellcaster in one combat and then release the energy in a subsequent combat.

 

[ECMO3]

From an efficiency perspective, it is highly dependent upon the DM and their game design. It can be a feat you take at level 4 and get to use twice by level 20, or it can be something that comes up in nearly every battle. I don't like the design because it provides bad incentives to a DM. If a player selects it and the DM wants to support the choice, that means adding more spellcasters to combat.

Both of the games I played it on so far were published 3rd party adventures and I am pretty confident my DM did not change anything. I know we got several random magic items no one in the party could use and that is unlikely to happen if the DM is changing things.

In the game with the Monk, we did spend a lot of time fighting an evil cult and that cult had a ton of Warlocks (and had a ton before I took the feat), so that probably did make it more useful.

I think I am going to put it on the Character I am currently playing in Lairs of Etharis at probably 18th level. She is a multiclass Drow Eldritch Knight/Undead Warlock, and she is going to start taking Paladin levels after level 11 (after 8 fighter/2 Warlock). She would be 8/2/8 when she got MAge Slayer (after leveling up Paladin). That means keeping her at a 16 strength the whole game though on a character that is in melee a lot.

 

[Zardnaar]

It's not bad because it's weak. It's bad because it's situational.

If that situation comes up all the time potentially I consider it a good feat.

Fighter types Resilient wisdom and/or heroism and protection from good and evil can be great.

 

[Ancalagon]

I agree that the main issue with the feat is that it's very situational, and can go from extremely useful in one campaign to next to useless in another.

I don't have a good "fix", but I do note that in Troika!, there is a "class" called the wizard hunter. The wizard hunter has skills/features that are useful to hunt wizard... buuut if that character was played in a campaign with no enemy spellcasters, it still would be a good character because those skill/features were also useful for other things. I'm not quite sure how that would work in 5e, but it's the approach I would use.

 

[TheSword]

I think if it was that good on a 2014 monk it'll be awesome sauce on a 2024 monk!

It’s has been changed dramatically for 2024 according the playtest.

Now it gives +1 ASI
Casters damaged in melee are at disadvantage on the concentration chrck
If they fail a test a character can change to an auto pass one Wis, Int or Cha save per long rest.

It loses that opportunity attack but becomes more defensive and gains the ASI. Also neither ability requires melee to activate. Very different feat but much less circumstantial.

 

[CreamCloud0]

i say let it let you make mage slayer opportunity attacks with thrown weapons, one of the biggest drawbacks of mage slayer is that you need to standing next to a caster when they cast in the first place which is very rare given that a vast majority of spells are ranged to some degree, doing this would vastly increase the opportunities for the feat to activate.

increase the saving throw advantage to 15/20ft too for similar reasons.

 

[ECMO3]

Fighter types Resilient wisdom and/or heroism and protection from good and evil can be great.

PEG is one of the best 1st level spells. Not as good as shield or healing word, but right up there with Bless or Silvery Barbs or other "good but not busted" 1st level spells. The character I am playing now that I mention above had PEG at 4th level (EK3/Warlock1) as one of the first three Eldritch Knight spells she got.

I get resilient Wisdom on almost every high level character who does not have Wisdom proficiency already. In tier 4+ you usually have to if you want to actually be able to control your character in combat. In this case I am not because she is going to have Paladin levels and a 20 Charisma which give me a +5 and she can make herself immune to frightened which is probably about 20% of those saves.

 

[Ancalagon]

It’s has been changed dramatically for 2024 according the playtest.

Now it gives +1 ASI
Casters damaged in melee are at disadvantage on the concentration chrck
If they fail a test a character can change to an auto pass one Wis, Int or Cha save per long rest.

It loses that opportunity attack but becomes more defensive and gains the ASI. Also neither ability requires melee to activate. Very different feat but much less circumstantial.

ha - a bit like that Troika! class I mentioned -useful vs caster but also useful in general